Dev Team - Flagships

[LuckyDube]

i dont care about the rest of the flagships perks what i think about them matters little as they help the classes they represent as a whole and whether i find them good or bad means nothing

there are plenty of things i may not like within the game but overall they are designed for everyone so everyone has to deal with them or like them
and so for me they are acceptable

the second you add a buff or perk that does not help a whole class as it should then i will object and loudly

i dont care what the trader class gets as a perk as long as every trader gets the perk
there are plenty of people who trade but do not use plantations they should be included in whatever the added perks are and that does not mean they should get a perk and then plantations get one

if plantations need perks then you have all kinds of features you can add for them in many other places but to say a ship sitting in port will get them to produce eventually double what they normally do well thats silly if they slow down are you going to shoot cannons at them and ruin your plantation and kill other workers who are working... i think not


why are you and hawk so adamant that this remains when clearly most are against it
why is it so important to ignore the input given about that perk and stretch this out into a plantation booster
this is what concerns me in addition to the nonsensical idea of this flagship boosting plantations

jessicaas flagship which i didnt like was better than this
feniks idea was way better as it could boost all classes and added nation play while introducing a new class which was brilliant
but both of those were dismissed and this insistance for plantation boosts is what remains..... why


the four bounties just added proves someone with cash already is to benefit and does not like my thoughts which makes it even more laughable

You should change your name to Vanity, since its 'all about you'.

[Noffin]

The plantation buff has been given more negative responses than positive since this started yet it still shows up. I think this is the point the players are trying to make.

These reasons have been given.

Flagships should only have pirate perks - We have established that Flagships should be for everyone

Illogical - The concept is understandable, certainly well past the point needed for a game

Plantations needs an upgrade (techs, buildings, or more) - This is not really a reason. The perk and this are not contradictory. Now if you are saying that plantations need to be addressed first (which nobody has). Then that would be potentially be a good argument.

For now I will put a note on the ability that it will be revisited at the time Plantations is looked at, similar to the Fame aspect.

You keep saying they are for everyone but I still see no bonuses for goldsmiths, shipwrights, bankers etc. Don't say everyone when everyone is not included. Why must we say plantations need to be addressed when nearly everyone has said it does not fit in with the flagship. There is a seperate forum for plantations, this one here is for flagships.

[Dmanwuzhere]

The plantation buff has been given more negative responses than positive since this started yet it still shows up. I think this is the point the players are trying to make.

These reasons have been given.

Flagships should only have pirate perks - We have established that Flagships should be for everyone

Illogical - The concept is understandable, certainly well past the point needed for a game

Plantations needs an upgrade (techs, buildings, or more) - This is not really a reason. The perk and this are not contradictory. Now if you are saying that plantations need to be addressed first (which nobody has). Then that would be potentially be a good argument.

For now I will put a note on the ability that it will be revisited at the time Plantations is looked at, similar to the Fame aspect.

who are you to say what is a good argument you wouldnt know a good argument if it bit you in the butt
you admit ignorance about plantations yet you argue for boosting it lol thats not a good argument and clearly shows you are acting for the interest of some one who has sold you on the idea
you shouldnt be a dev if you are going to fight for a few and ignore the majority

[sXs]

I begin to suspect that flagships are being used as crutches to prop up plantations. If plantations need to be made more attractive fix the damn things : dont force the rest of the game into being their support.

Here it is.

[Dmanwuzhere]

i dont care about the rest of the flagships perks what i think about them matters little as they help the classes they represent as a whole and whether i find them good or bad means nothing

there are plenty of things i may not like within the game but overall they are designed for everyone so everyone has to deal with them or like them
and so for me they are acceptable

the second you add a buff or perk that does not help a whole class as it should then i will object and loudly

i dont care what the trader class gets as a perk as long as every trader gets the perk
there are plenty of people who trade but do not use plantations they should be included in whatever the added perks are and that does not mean they should get a perk and then plantations get one

if plantations need perks then you have all kinds of features you can add for them in many other places but to say a ship sitting in port will get them to produce eventually double what they normally do well thats silly if they slow down are you going to shoot cannons at them and ruin your plantation and kill other workers who are working... i think not


why are you and hawk so adamant that this remains when clearly most are against it
why is it so important to ignore the input given about that perk and stretch this out into a plantation booster
this is what concerns me in addition to the nonsensical idea of this flagship boosting plantations

jessicaas flagship which i didnt like was better than this
feniks idea was way better as it could boost all classes and added nation play while introducing a new class which was brilliant
but both of those were dismissed and this insistance for plantation boosts is what remains..... why


the four bounties just added proves someone with cash already is to benefit and does not like my thoughts which makes it even more laughable

You should change your name to Vanity, since its 'all about you'.

lol if you think its about me then you should change your name to clueless

[Redish]

Not being one for nitty-gritty details I can't really say I read much of all the technical detailed posts that I've seen. Hawk's suggestion seemed to the point and relatively simple though. These are my thoughts.

Why was Flagship suggested in the first place? Have we not deviated from the original reason it was suggested? For me Flagship was something that would counter the power of Levi cards which is why I supported it but the recent changes with ship traits have sorted that problem. From that point of view I'd almost say skip the whole Flagship idea.

If it is implemented though:
- It shouldn't be a monster ship that conquers the world, just something that each player can customize, make his or her own, pimp it up a bit, make it pretty. Paint donkeys on the sails.
- There are enough ways to strengthen a ship and increase battle performance through tech and selecting ships with the right ship traits, so I don't think we need even more strength in a Flagship.
- Perhaps just a few perks such as 1) increased gold earnings on each successful battle or 2)the ability to jump from port to port a bit quicker to save turns during a raid, allowing a player to attack more fleets.(Only available to the Flagship fleet and only on the jump function) (These could be increased percentages linked to number of days the ship is held as a Flagship or days a player is active flying the Black Flag) 3) Some form of increased intelligence in the port where Flagship is currently at (Pay credits for this...number of gold fleets to a port...see the number of attribute points of a specific ship...It could be exploited though)
- Upon loss of such a Flag ship a pirate suffers increased loss in gold, say half his her gold on hand.

If we make things too technical, flagship might never see the light of day.

[LuckyDube]

i dont care about the rest of the flagships perks what i think about them matters little as they help the classes they represent as a whole and whether i find them good or bad means nothing

there are plenty of things i may not like within the game but overall they are designed for everyone so everyone has to deal with them or like them
and so for me they are acceptable

the second you add a buff or perk that does not help a whole class as it should then i will object and loudly

i dont care what the trader class gets as a perk as long as every trader gets the perk
there are plenty of people who trade but do not use plantations they should be included in whatever the added perks are and that does not mean they should get a perk and then plantations get one

if plantations need perks then you have all kinds of features you can add for them in many other places but to say a ship sitting in port will get them to produce eventually double what they normally do well thats silly if they slow down are you going to shoot cannons at them and ruin your plantation and kill other workers who are working... i think not


why are you and hawk so adamant that this remains when clearly most are against it
why is it so important to ignore the input given about that perk and stretch this out into a plantation booster
this is what concerns me in addition to the nonsensical idea of this flagship boosting plantations

jessicaas flagship which i didnt like was better than this
feniks idea was way better as it could boost all classes and added nation play while introducing a new class which was brilliant
but both of those were dismissed and this insistance for plantation boosts is what remains..... why


the four bounties just added proves someone with cash already is to benefit and does not like my thoughts which makes it even more laughable

You should change your name to Vanity, since its 'all about you'.

lol if you think its about me then you should change your name to clueless

And so the voodoo retaliation from dman starts for me giving an opinion. There is are reasons i dont participate in these discussions.
one is that several of you are so full of hate or dislike , that you are unable to have reasonable discussions. perhaps that is a bigger problem than the perks you mention

[Sebena]

After rereading ropic and giving time for others to express reasons I still fail to see why we complicate things. Flagship is small gear twoards more pvp action. Why tie it into plantation? Plantations are entity for themselves flagship for itself.

Flagship should be available to every player for the credit cost I can agree to it with no issue.

On what concept it should work?
It gets 2 traits random and 1 can be chosen by the player.
Total 3 traits.

Level cap: can stay 10 or 11 with trait.
Att points can go above 10. Original ones go to 10 every new att needs to be earned via battles EXP system sounds good for me in this case.

Customization of ship:
Player can rearrange canons and cargo on his own. If he wants more canons cargo is reduced or if he wants more cargo canons are reduced.
Resourcedifference: maybe I want to use sturdier wood I get x% boost to hull. Maybe I want to use better sails x% boost in ship speed.
Fleet morale every ship in flagship fleet gets small boost in accuracy (crew wants to show off to comander that he was right to chose them)
I want better accuaracy I will pay better materialand better gunsmiths to build me better canons x% boost in accuaracy. Etc...

But to pervent exploit and building superships increase of 1 thing decrease other things.

All these things can be changed at any point if fleet has 2 or less danger points with payment of credits symbolicly 5 credits and 1 remodel card ( increase value of remodel card as a rare card)

Plunder results winning battles earn 2% more gold coins (paid by the defender (yes it still aplies if advanced piracy is active) Fame winning stays the same. If opponents fleet carries GBs they are plundered aswell.

Lost battle: 5% increase in losing fame if fleet lost to the non flagship fleet.
If player fly black x% of chance to escape without paying ransom. (I like that perk from original post)

I forgot a lot of things so if you remember them feel free to ask and I will respond

[Noffin]

After rereading ropic and giving time for others to express reasons I still fail to see why we complicate things. Flagship is small gear twoards more pvp action. Why tie it into plantation? Plantations are entity for themselves flagship for itself.

Agree with Wolfie, plantations are still in beta so please stop trying to tie it in with flagships when it is not even a completed game mechanic itself.

[Most Lee Harmless]

A Flagship is a ship. Lets keep that in mind as the focus of what it can bring to the game. So it makes sense that it can influence ships and what ships do. It does not make sense that it can influence land, buildings or things of that nature. This is a wise position because once we allow it to influence one so we must allow it to influence all. Do workers become more productive for seeing the bosses luxury limo parked outside? I never did, in fact, quite the opposite. If we claim it can then why only plantation workers (as has been suggested)? Why not goldsmiths? Ship-builders? Merchants and warehouse workers? Wives and husbands?
No, because no ship is that powerful or awesome or inspiring. If it inspires workers then it must impress the neighbors do why not influence bonuses when in port? See.. its a slippery slope indeed.

So, what should a flag-ship do? It should add weight to its fleet and improve its actions and outcomes. Fight harder, damage more, plunder more coin, gain more fame. HOW it does so is simple : the owner decides where to apply the bonus attributes it has when nominated and any others it gains thru experience in combat. I much prefer that nothing can be fully maxed : its which areas you choose to focus your strength provide the best battles. So.. lets talk of a nominal maximum of 100 atts which can be applied to your flagship : but there is space for 120 : now... choices must be made and from that comes differences and from that comes good battles.

I like the escape chance for pirates : they are slippery sneaky customers : it makes sense they can dodge duck and dive their way out of bother.

I like experience gained thru battle.

I dont like bonuses handed out to all comers from some notion of equity. The Flag-ship is a warship : that is its function and its benefits must flow from that function.

Oh... and I have previously said this : fix plantations please. Adding a flagship-based bonus wont do it anyway. Flagships cant be made into the cure-all for all that ails us. It cant be the make-weight in some cosmic game balance. It must stand as itself and the simpler we keep it the better it will function.