Plantations Expansion

[Captain Jack]

Another Important step has been completed: Bank Priorities interface for Governor/King payments has been implemented.
This is open for all and we highly suggest to use it, as it will be used for more features in the future. Find the link for it at the Banks page.

Schedule-wise, at our struggle to release Plantations at June 1st, we are still in the race. We are still 2 days behind from our preferred point, however this does not mean we will not make June 1st. This happens because we estimated 3 days extra delay in total, so 2 days are still within the target.

We are hopeful that till tomorrow we will cover some of the lost ground. This hints that we may even have an earlier release. The chances for such are really low though. We won't know for sure till Tuesday.

What seems to be earning ground, is the possibility to delay the extra resources right ahead, at June 2 as my latest update was. We may eventually have some different functionality for every resource and this may mean that we may not be ready to release them right away. So, instead of delaying them for bugs precaution, as our original reason was, we might be obliged to push them a little later in order to add extra functionality.

This will clear our in the following days as we are still in need of more testing. In case this scenario prevails, the difference will be located to specific parts of the management. For example, workers management will be the same for all plantations. What we are looking to differentiate, are the strategies to follow which should be different for each resource.

This way, a player may be an expert in managing workers. This will help him with all plantations. However, creating a grain plantation should be different than creating a Rum one as different setups/strategies will be needed. Since Food plantations are the only ones really needed, we believe that an extra challenge for a mostly PvE feature should not be declined. At least not before appropriate testing has been done. Or at least not before receiving feedback for the food plantations. If players find them too easy for example, this will be signal to add different functionality per plantation type.

[sXs]

[DezNutz]

Another Important step has been completed: Bank Priorities interface for Governor/King payments has been implemented.
This is open for all and we highly suggest to use it, as it will be used for more features in the future. Find the link for it at the Banks page.

Schedule-wise, at our struggle to release Plantations at June 1st, we are still in the race. We are still 2 days behind from our preferred point, however this does not mean we will not make June 1st. This happens because we estimated 3 days extra delay in total, so 2 days are still within the target.

We are hopeful that till tomorrow we will cover some of the lost ground. This hints that we may even have an earlier release. The chances for such are really low though. We won't know for sure till Tuesday.

What seems to be earning ground, is the possibility to delay the extra resources right ahead, at June 2 as my latest update was. We may eventually have some different functionality for every resource and this may mean that we may not be ready to release them right away. So, instead of delaying them for bugs precaution, as our original reason was, we might be obliged to push them a little later in order to add extra functionality.

This will clear our in the following days as we are still in need of more testing. In case this scenario prevails, the difference will be located to specific parts of the management. For example, workers management will be the same for all plantations. What we are looking to differentiate, are the strategies to follow which should be different for each resource.

This way, a player may be an expert in managing workers. This will help him with all plantations. However, creating a grain plantation should be different than creating a Rum one as different setups/strategies will be needed. Since Food plantations are the only ones really needed, we believe that an extra challenge for a mostly PvE feature should not be declined. At least not before appropriate testing has been done. Or at least not before receiving feedback for the food plantations. If players find them too easy for example, this will be signal to add different functionality per plantation type.

+1 I particularly appreciate the thoughts in the last paragraph. I personally feel that plantations should require some effort. It would be great to see a feature that requires regular attention.


Just a thought, but to add on to plantations, I think Pirates (Jolly Roger) should be restricted from controlling plantations. In return, Pirates (Jolly Roger) would have the ability to conduct raids on plantations.

[Jack Teach]

Another Important step has been completed: Bank Priorities interface for Governor/King payments has been implemented.
This is open for all and we highly suggest to use it, as it will be used for more features in the future. Find the link for it at the Banks page.

Schedule-wise, at our struggle to release Plantations at June 1st, we are still in the race. We are still 2 days behind from our preferred point, however this does not mean we will not make June 1st. This happens because we estimated 3 days extra delay in total, so 2 days are still within the target.

We are hopeful that till tomorrow we will cover some of the lost ground. This hints that we may even have an earlier release. The chances for such are really low though. We won't know for sure till Tuesday.

What seems to be earning ground, is the possibility to delay the extra resources right ahead, at June 2 as my latest update was. We may eventually have some different functionality for every resource and this may mean that we may not be ready to release them right away. So, instead of delaying them for bugs precaution, as our original reason was, we might be obliged to push them a little later in order to add extra functionality.

This will clear our in the following days as we are still in need of more testing. In case this scenario prevails, the difference will be located to specific parts of the management. For example, workers management will be the same for all plantations. What we are looking to differentiate, are the strategies to follow which should be different for each resource.

This way, a player may be an expert in managing workers. This will help him with all plantations. However, creating a grain plantation should be different than creating a Rum one as different setups/strategies will be needed. Since Food plantations are the only ones really needed, we believe that an extra challenge for a mostly PvE feature should not be declined. At least not before appropriate testing has been done. Or at least not before receiving feedback for the food plantations. If players find them too easy for example, this will be signal to add different functionality per plantation type.

+1 I particularly appreciate the thoughts in the last paragraph. I personally feel that plantations should require some effort. It would be great to see a feature that requires regular attention.


Just a thought, but to add on to plantations, I think Pirates (Jolly Roger) should be restricted from controlling plantations. In return, Pirates (Jolly Roger) would have the ability to conduct raids on plantations.

That's an amazing idea.

[Meliva]

That is a good idea. It also makes sense from a RP perspective-I do not think many pirates could own land, or at least, not openly. Another idea is for pirates to be able to own and run a plantation but they need an alias or need to run it from behind the scenes while someone else is the front of the operation. But I think that might be too much of a hassle to implement, and raiding would be far simpler, so dez's idea is probably better.

[Captain Jack]

Raiding can be an alluring thought but with no sketch in how this could work, it will remain as a thought. At any case, we are nowhere near such yet. First, we will need to see how plantations will be and work before adding any.. raiding mechanisms. Secondly, plantations are considered land only and we do not have any ground troops yet or any way to move in land. These should become possible in the future though (see ideas IC extension and Land Battles), so then we will be able to consider such.

As for Pirates, practically the limitations already apply. We just don't have to script everything. Governors can reject any Pirate from assuming a plantation at his port. Now, if a pirate wants to have a plantation, who has the right to say this is inappropriate? Why should we ever script a hard limit?

[Captain Jack]

I have updated the first post with a lot of insight in Plantations Management. Specifically: Improving Buildings , Long Term Management and Events. There is more to be posted but I believe that most are more Manual entries that a suggestion proposal.

Have a look at it and feel free to post your feedback here.

Btw, on the raids subject, I noticed that is also mentioned in the initial topic. However, its not something that can happen now, at version 1, as I explained above. This is a common practice after all, to list every possible expansion at the initial suggestion. Such should still be regarded as expansions, like the Nation Diplomacy Expansion was, to the Nations Control feature.

[DezNutz]

Raiding can be an alluring thought but with no sketch in how this could work, it will remain as a thought. At any case, we are nowhere near such yet. First, we will need to see how plantations will be and work before adding any.. raiding mechanisms. Secondly, plantations are considered land only and we do not have any ground troops yet or any way to move in land. These should become possible in the future though (see ideas IC extension and Land Battles), so then we will be able to consider such.

As for Pirates, practically the limitations already apply. We just don't have to script everything. Governors can reject any Pirate from assuming a plantation at his port. Now, if a pirate wants to have a plantation, who has the right to say this is inappropriate? Why should we ever script a hard limit?

Just wanted to plant the thought. I wrote the idea knowing that it would/could be an add-on after plantations were implemented and running for a while. I have a few ideas on how it could function (with and without land forces) and I will put that in it's own topic, but without seeing how plantations will function in game play the functionality would be limited on what effects raids would have on a plantation.

My reasons for the hardcode of no pirates owned plantations, is that raids (maybe just ship based, land based raids could be done later by anyone when land units are developed) would be only for pirates. Plantations, in my opinion, are a development aimed toward traders. Sure a pirate could own a plantation, but they aren't really a pirate at that point. There should be some clear distinctions between pirates and traders. In my opinion, not every part of a feature should be available to everyone. Banks are an example of this as they do not allow Pirates to operate a Bank; however, the problem encountered with Banks is that Pirates gained no benefit that non-pirates do not have access to. It was a one-sided benefit. Plantations can easily allow for benefits that are different on each side, that only benefit that side.

[Captain Jack]

Raid - Feel free to create a topic about it when you have a general idea.

Pirates: Why keep raids only for Pirates? A Duke cannot raid his enemy? Or a King? It does not make sense to "invent" special perks just because these are Pirates. There needs to be reason.

Plantations -> I reject the traders idea. Plantations are a different thing than trading. They are not aimed for traders. There are so many paths to follow, let's not summarize them down to 2: Pirates-Merchants. There are also Bankers, people who enjoy the Nation aspect of the nation, others that fight for honor, not gold; there are many different styles and we should respect them by allowing them their own ground.

Why I a pirate should not want to own a plantation? If you have watched the Black Sails series, this Vayne fellow visits an odd island, from which he escaped, to find a fearsome crew. The leader of the island there is a seemingly Legendary Pirate, who is however using his former crew (and not only them) to work the woods, only to sell the wood later. That Pirate, evidently has a plantation operation! We should not put tags or strictly define how a pirate should behave. In historical facts, Sir Henry Morgan is considered among the top pirates but his lifestyle was more like a noble,sailing to big ships and ransacking cities. In contrary, Blackbeard was more like what you seem to consider a pirate. Both are pirates though.

Pirates are not allowed to run a Bank due to their unlawful nature. It's a different reason and the ultimate reason that diversifies Pirates from all the rest. Their unlawful nature. It's not like we had an idea out of nowhere: let's forbid this from pirates. Pirates should get some sort of Pawn Store at some point. Where they will be able to give gold in exchange for assets or something like this. This way, the simulation will also react to reality as there is no way a Pirate would ever run a bank. A loan shark yes, a Bank, no.

I realize what you are trying to say though. It makes sense to seek more specialization for Pirates. I just believe that we must be very careful in what we opt-out. Being a pirate is already hard after all. Ruling plantations out for example, would mean that a HUGE feature would be unavailable for them, yet another. As for raids, perhaps Pirates should get some bonus/extra skill when we get there. Not the sole ability to do it.

[Captain Jack]

I wanted to share a decision we took and is relative with Bank fees on governor/king payments.

We contemplated whether we should use the current fees by banks or whether we should enforce a fixed fee (% based) to avoid shady works. Without a fixed fee, a banker can go (and even temporarily) tweak the send payments fee and grab part of the Governor's income. The very fact that this can happen in mutual consent with the one paying the fee and in fact, during a process where Governors cannot participate at all, made us to seriously consider a fixed 1% fee.

Eventually,we decided that each bank should be responsible for such actions. Governors will see how much the bank has kept. If a banker wishes to be shady, so be it, it will be his problem if their... victims find out.