Port Blockades (Large)

[Captain Jack]

Hideouts are a rare card. Not only in type but in the game as well.

However, I do not really get your argument. What exactly are you trying to imply?

[Most Lee Harmless]

Hideouts are a rare card. Not only in type but in the game as well.

However, I do not really get your argument. What exactly are you trying to imply?

The initiator of a Blockade has weeks to plan and prep their attempt : finessing their fleets, their confederates, their voodoo chest : the MoW doesnt need to appear until H-Hour : once in the Blockade it is safe, once out of it, it can be rapidly made safe by use of voodoo. So, a smart initiator wont have it at risk for much more than what, an hour, all told, start to finish? Even that can be minimised further by using an FD to get it to the target port : then its what, 10 minutes of risk?

It gets better : there is a 'grace' period at the resolution phase, no? The Initiator can decide WHEN they remove their MoW from the blockade : Any 'interested parties' will have to watch for that moment and act instantly, for in a few minutes, it can be washed, moved and stored away in utter and total safety.

The defenders get 24 hours to marshal their forces : but they have to have those forces to hand. For all their ports, all the time, for none will know when a blockade will be initiated. If they lose round one, they must keep those forces to hand for the extension.. ad infinitum.. for even a win just means another can start a blockade in their turn.

And, of course, win or lose, all their participating fleets are lit up as well, and also at risk of plunder or loss should they not have a dozen hide-outs to hand... every time. And, while these power fleets sit, awaiting their anti-blockade duties : they are vulnerable to all the usual threats from raids and voodoo. Unless the defenders keep masses of turns at hand to move them in and out of marinas... assuming they have the marina space..paid for.. etc, etc...

[Captain Jack]

First of, the Hideout tactic while viable, it is too expensive. Hideout cards currently are priced at 18 credits and currently a credit is roughly priced at 180k. That's 32M. Also, you need to consider that this cost is for a single blockade. Sure a MoW costs more than this. So, 200 credits in Hideout cards to hide it sounds like an option. An option that you cannot indefinitely take. What will happen if someone starts to use this strategy more often? Won't cards run out? If not, won't their price soar?

The resolution grace period is designed for the reason you mentioned. To give time to everyone to organize their defense as they see fit. Some might use your idea of hideout, others might want to expose their fleets when they will be online and not when they are sleeping. Lose on sleep tactic is something we despise. Where is the problem here? I really cannot follow your logic. What do you want exactly?

If defenders lose round 1, the port will be blockaded for 72hours and all attacking fleets will get danger. The winning fleets get danger, not all. So the loser will always have some ground to gain profit over the other side. Which could prove get him stronger at the next round, if any.

Of course, serious defenders will need to keep fleets ready for this action. They can be trade fleets of course. Probably it is against your style, I understand this but your style is not rendered useless. We are simply adding room for a style that right now needs a buff. While at one hand these fleets will be in danger (which is a good thing) at the other hand they will be the fleets that provide the security.

Again though I do not get which your root problem is. I read above that you want some bounty for the defenders. Well, there is an obvious bounty; keep the port free so traders can use them. There is no limitation on defenders. When a blockade starts, anyone can join; Those trading fleets that use the port. The country that owns the port. Any warmongers. The enemies of those attempting the blockade. There are so many groups that will have interest.

How important defending will be is illustrated by what PK said earlier. Although his reaction is counterproductive. Plus, I added earlier that this is again a matter of "who wants it more" and "supply and demand".

There are 21 ports out there. Chances that all of them are blockaded at the same time are near zero. But if this ever happens, I would like to see it. It would be very interesting. For the rest of the time, there should be plenty of ports left for the peaceful traders who want to keep their trading.

Taking it further, we need to consider the future of this game free from any fear. The center of this game are the ships and no matter what we add, they will always be the most important element. Peaceful traders that despise any sort of war will either need to contract with their wealth the right people for the job or try other trading opportunities that will arise. Plantations will give you the ability to sell goods to the port after all. Of course, nothing will ever pay more than fleet trading and this is only reasonable. If a merchant does not like any of the option, then this is not something we can remedy.

In short, you can't have maximum profit yield at no risk or at no extra cost.

The only thing that I can consider right now from the merchants perspective, is to prioritize plantations over Blockades. Although there needs to be sufficient feedback on this.

Last but not least, do not forget Diplomacy. Diplomacy and guilds will play a greater role now than before. If you want to keep trading but not war, then perhaps your guild could do this for you. It will also be a matter of right choices. Or else, you can always pay the toll.

[Most Lee Harmless]

Why would a merchant risk their fleets defending another nations port? No profit in that, just costs : smarter to just send their fleets elsewhere for the duration. Again, why should, for example, Bonaire worry about protecting Spains merchants? Why would Bonaire consider it sound business to spend lots to keep Spains merchants in business? Why should Spain worry about protecting Bonaires trade tax income? Simple : there is no extra benefit in defending a blockade : just a range of costs in doing so : there is no extra benefit in wining a blockade defence : just a range of costs for doing so. A win benefits others : a loss inconveniences others. In short, for the defending side, its just a series of additional costs with absolutely zero prospect of recovering a single gold coin from what you must spend.
Maybe there is an incentive in there : an incentive to just walk away from the whole smelly schemmy mess, as Phoenix suggests? Cos, CJ, there aint much incentive to stay and participate in them.

[Sebena]

Since you mentioned guilds and diplomacy where were those in recent happenings with Bermuda? Everything here goes back to old problem voodoo cards determine everything. We all can lie to us and say ships are crucial part of the game. That is amazing lie. As far as I know I didn't use ships to take goroum from USA or TLT when he took caspian. Shadowood didn't took neapolis and kanoni because ships he took it because cards. So lets stop making lies and work on crucial problems. Why would I care if goroum or caspian is blocked? Screw it I will just reroute. But if I would be able to earn money and make other lose ships I will be first on the line defending only because of pleasure of saying in your face... You mentioned other fractions only whom would be willing to defend port is mercenaries for right price. USA had good allies and yet noone came to rescue them from recent war. Right now there is civil war in USA and yet neither of those fractions run and aid them. So expecting others to fight someones battles is stupid. Why would I care about happenings in any other nation, guild? I will care about happenings but not because I want to help I simply seek profit. If you offer equal reward like danik proposed you will get what you are saying that is going to happen now.

[Sebena]

Why would a merchant risk their fleets defending another nations port?

But they will get honor points that is enough of reward

[Most Lee Harmless]

I'm gonna end my interest in this thread with this thought :

Daily,every player must face the prospect of a total de-fleet if they mess up : this is good, it concentrates the mind : the reward of mass trade must carry the risk of mass loss. The reward of mass raiding must carry the risk of mass retribution.

But here, we have a proposed 'mass battle' which is so one-sided in terms of risk and reward as to be laughable. 'Oh my MoW will be at risk!' Damn right, and so it should be, along with all the attackers fleets. Like wise, the defenders fleets must be at risk of total loss : thats what applies in the game itself, thats the argument used to justify the danger system, skirmish, raids, etc, etc.. why does it not apply in this case? Because its a MoW? Because its the attackers MoW? What of the defenders MoW, reqd to combat that attacking MoW? Does the risk to that not need thinking about too? This hwole scheme is flawed : on the one hand , it is minimising risk to attacker whilst seeking to maximise their reward, on the other, the defender gets cost piled on cost, no reward and if they dont fight, why, lets strip their influence away and lose them their port!

Walk away, walk away, let leave the children to play...

[PhoenixKnight]

I am sorry to say this but Honor points would not be enough reward for a barrage of blockades. There have been times when certain guilds banded together for a piracy purpose. Same guilds can easily initiate multi port blockade at the same time. With on nation defending multiple, the nation will be drained too quickly.

Something like blockades should be limited to only 1 port against the holding nation and extensions should not be feasible for past 2 or 3 times with the duration between the blockades increasing the more blockades are happening.

[Captain Jack]

Fleets are the major producers of wealth, in any way you look at it. Surely, voodoo can play a great role but it is fleets that rule the game. There are multiple examples that come to mind and out of which I want to use none; you should be in a position to know. If not, it is surely not up to me to to point out and even more so, not the right place to do so.

I see the second irony post about honor points, first was from Danik, second from Wolfie. This is counterproductive. If you want to say something, please do. If you want to be ironic, get out of this topic and open a new one. I won't moderate you. Don't derail this topic though.

No one is forced to do anything. I am giving examples of play. Everyone is free to choose his path.

As for the whole-merchant-profit discussion you do fail to spot the obvious. Just extract it from my example:

-Bob makes 30M a day with trading
-He runs only trade fleets, he does not even buy cannons
-One day, evil CJ and his crew introduce blockades.
-Before he can even blink his eye, his favored port is now blockaded by a band of Pirates!
-"OMG! What a shame! I will depart in pride! Goodbye cruel Avonmora!" says Bob, absolutely stunned. Alas! All good things come to an end.

Yes, this could well be a good example. It's a possible scenario. It has happened already. A player was making this exact sum amount of coin a day when there was a glimse that someone might attack his fleets. He wrote me a message and told me he has not touched anyone. Thus, he will now be leaving the game. I fare welled him.

[Captain Jack]

I am sorry to say this but Honor points would not be enough reward for a barrage of blockades. There have been times when certain guilds banded together for a piracy purpose. Same guilds can easily initiate multi port blockade at the same time. With on nation defending multiple, the nation will be drained too quickly.

Something like blockades should be limited to only 1 port against the holding nation and extensions should not be feasible for past 2 or 3 times with the duration between the blockades increasing the more blockades are happening.

Honor points are part of the rewards. Blockades will mainly simulate a real case scenario.

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Let's go back in real time and suppose you are the Governor of Tortuga...

A Spanish Armada is about to appear, ready to blockade your port. Reports coming from everywhere mention that the initiator will be Kangaroo "The Australian" as they call him. You have never met him but his nickname tests your nerves... "What an Australian is...", you wonder. Your faithful quartermaster informs you that most probably your adversary will be sailing in his Flagship, the beautiful Man 'o War called "Aussies Pride". All these weird new words that the enemy brings along are equally bothersome.

Reading through the report, you also see that there are only a few fleets on their way here. "But more may appear later...", your quartermaster adds.

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I think the story is good and if you would like, you could try role playing this further. Kangaroo might also want to participate as the other end. Remember, you are the Governor of Tortuga, let's say this is an English port (like it used to be) so you are an English Governor of the all mighty British Empire.

Tortuga is a very important military port while trading flourishes here.

What do you do?