The Wharf of the Guild

[Sir Henry Morgan]

As my first post, I'd like to say I truly enjoy Pirates Glory, and the spirit in which the game is moving.

One of the concerns seems to be getting new players started quicker. One thought I have is a means for a guild to "lend" the new members ships to start their fleets faster with bigger fleets and ships. There are alot of ways to make this work; here's some thoughts on how this could be done:

Each Guild has a Wharf in a port chosen by the guildmaster. The wharf can berth a total of one ship per member, however, one member could provide all the ships. In otherwords, 10 members, 10 ships could be made available. These ships would become assets of the guild, thus could not be returned to the original owner.

Members could "borrow" these ships to get started, as long as they have the officers needed to sail the ship. Each player can borrow one, or five, or however are available, upon approval of the guildmaster and whoever else he/she deems authorized to lend out the ships.

To keep someone from simply using guild ships and leaving, the ship automatically goes back to the guild wharf upon their leaving the guild. if a person tries to sell the ship, it could be returned to the guild or "lost at sea," with a loss of fame points. (That would make it interesting!)

To encourage people to return the ships when they were able, they cannot add ships to their fleets while in possession of a guild ship. They can add ships, but they cannot use them until they return the guild's vessels. To return a vessel, one simply sails to the guild's wharf, and removes the ship from the fleet.

Guild ships could be limited in style, such Merchantman for trade, or Brig of War for battle. These vessels could be limited in upgrade, say level 5 or 6. Or not...

These vessels could also be treated as any other vessel in the game, subject to voodoo and plunder.

Just some thoughts .... any and many more are welcomed.

Sir Henry Morgan

[Captain Jack]

This is an excellent idea! I like how you also explain the details of it.

The only problem I see with the idea is the officers. Perhaps there will be requirements for Officers as the Wharf will provide these. This is perhaps mandatory as a new player most of the time cannot pay for anything. Of course, we will include the Officer cost in the Wharf size.

This could be the first guild building to release! I am awaiting for suggestion on costs; it should include both resources and gold. I know that resource cost can be very annoying at first thought but it is much more realistic this way while it can be easily handled with proper organization.

(Welcome to the forums, I look forward to your feedback for other matters at hand)

[Xepshunall]

If a player tries to leave a guild, without returning one or more ships, the 'lost at sea' is unfair to the guild. They should simply be prevented from that action. A player could get angry with another member of the guild and forget his holdings during his rage and just try to leave. Instead, he should be informed that he has property of his guild that must be returned first. This may serve as a cool-down period for the player to decide if he had cause to be angry enough to give up the generosity of his guild for a petty little misunderstanding that is likely to occur in a game that is played by people around the world but in a language that may not be the player's native tongue.
This idea has been submitted a couple times before but without the 'loan' effect. I appreciate that you put an acceptable spin on it and had enough imagination to come up with the necessary mechanisms for transfer of possession of the ships that was able to get it considered.

[Sir Henry Morgan]

The idea of a guild officer for the ships is a good one. The guild could hire the captain, admiral, merchants. The member donating the ship could outfit the ship with a crew and cannons. If the guild hires crew and cannons, the guild's influence could be based upon the influence of the guild members' influence, perhaps providing a percentage of the influence each member has in that particular port, say 5%
.
With a guild captain at the helm of the ship, and the player decides to leave, the captain would then "mutiny" and head back to the berth at the wharf. If the admiral is a guild admiral, the leaving player's ships are dumped at the closest port, and the admiral heads for the wharf. Guild Merchants would do the same.

The leaving member could be warned that the officers hired from the guild will mutiny if the member leaves the guild, and the officers will leave - taking their ships (and cargo) with them.

To "buy" this loyalty, a guild officer can have a double or triple hiring cost .

[Jim Hawkins]

Hi, Don,t over complicate it.

Each guild can purchase a guild wharf warehouse at the same cost and expansion rate as existing warehouses. This warehouse can store gold and resources donated by taxes from guild members. This could be based on no of crew a member has and deducted in the same way. These resources and gold can them make ships that belong to the guild by an appointed member ( wharf officer ). Each ship would come with its own captain and admiral.

New members below a certain fame level can then apply to borrow a trading ship or ships for one week to get then going. Above that level and below the next level they can borrow war ships for one week. The ships automatically returning to the wharf at the end of the week. Players above that second level would have to hire ships if they required them. This would stop players hanging on to ships and give other players a chance.

In the event of a guild disbanding all assets would be lost to Pirates Glory.

[Xepshunall]

I don't think Sir henry morgan's ideas are OVERLY complicated though simpler is better.

1. The ship and officers needed by the borrower must be donated by a guild or any of it's members and will never be returned to the donating player. They will remain property of the guild. Any proceeds from sale of the ship will revert to the guild fund. This can be used to upgrade or replace a loner ship or for any other events that may some day give use to a guild fund.

2. One member of the guild should decide who borrows a ship or ships. To keep it simple, it should be the guild's leader and not an appointed officer. Change in leadership may complicate it otherwise.

3. The ship can never be allowed to be stolen by the borrower, only plundered. This gives rise to another concern. What do we do if a player borrows a ship or ships just so he can intentionally lose it (or them) to a multi-play account? I have no answer for this.

4. There is no gain in fame or gold for the player who donates a ship or even several ships. It/they is/are to be used within the guild. Therefore it cannot effect the guild's total fame or gold numbers until it is used in trade or combat and then only by effecting those numbers of the player who is using it/them and who is already a member of that guild. The ships serve no purpose while in the wharf.

5. If there are to be limits to who may borrow a ship or ships then there must be a range rather then just an upper limit. A player should have to prove worthiness. Also if there are limits then the ship type would have to be of a trading nature. I would rather that there were no limits on who can borrow or what types of ships may be borrowed. For that matter, a single ship at a port seems too small a limitation for me. I would just as soon make it a fleet complete with all the available officers provided by the guild or it's members. Such fleets should be allowed to be of any model so that a player can take it up it facilitate a battle if needed. The guild's leader has the necessary judgement to decide if a certain fleet should be controlled by a certain member. Fame numbers need not play a role.

[Captain dungeness]

This is an excellent idea. I agree with a lot of what Sir Henery Morgan and Xepshunall has said- the simplicity of the idea makes it even better.

I think there doesn't need to be fame ranges that limit who can use what ship. The guild master should choose who is worthy to borrow the guild's ship(s) and not be restricted by a seemingly arbitrary game mechanic. The player might go and lose the ship due to inexperience- so more deserving players will be entrusted without the use of a fame rule.

How about only some of the ships are available. I wouldn't want a noob to be able to use a SotL at 0 fame. But I would like to let a new player borrow a Brig or a Sloop of War to go patrolling. That way they would have a chance to beat some NPC fleets. Also a few merchant ships should be available since that's the best way to help a new player grow. I think a Merchantman, and Large Fluyt should be avaiable. Maybe the Large Merchantman and Trade Galleon too since they seem to be the favorites. Also a Frigate would be good to loan to a more experienced player.

If a player gets kicked from the guild while borrowing a ship, the ship should immediately become reassignable. And the guild master should decide when to take back control of a ship (or the borrower could give it back). I don't think there needs to be an expiration timer on the loan- that would just be annoying if the guild master knows they want to keep the ship(s) with a certain player.

-Captain D

[Xepshunall]

CPT D,

I know you mean well but part of the simpler is better philosophy is that you don't place any limits on the allowances. Every guild master will assign what he believes is the right fleet to the right player. Just don't trust a noob with SoLs in your guild and let the other guilds do what they see fit.

[Sir Henry Morgan]

We already have a voodoo card - Tidal Wave - that anyone has the chance, albeit an extremely slim one, to land an SOtL. By not imposing limits on the types of ships a member can borrow, the Wharf of The Guild will allow for a guild to integrate the ability to lend ships into a more diverse strategy in play. This feature will allow for more than simply giving new players a helping hand, but also put guilds into power and influence similar to that of nations. (Trading companies of Old many times gained as much power, wealth and influence as countries, and this feature can help in that direction.)

The idea of a guild warehouse is excellent. In addition as a means to house materials to initially build the wharf, goods could be deposited by members that could be sold to pay docking/berthing fees (so much per vessel per update), crew and cannon costs, etc. I agree the current warehouse system for individual players applied to the guild would work well for this.

[Sir Henry Morgan]

One of the concerns mentioned by Captain Jack is the costs involved. The following numbers are arbitrary, just suggestions, yet using a similar systems that is already exist in the game, it would be simpler to program and for players to navigate. It could work as follows:

Building a Guild Sponsored Warehouse:
Double costs of Individual Warehouse. With the access to the warehouse by many different people, it should cost more.

Building A Guild Sponsored Wharf in a Port:
250,000 gold to pay for rights to build the wharf.
Say 4000 wood, 1000 tools, 800 iron, 2000 food and 2000 rum would be needed to build it. This is to build the wharf and feed the workmen building it.

This structure would berth any type of 5 vessels. This could be any vessel with any level of upgrade. Wharf maintenance and port fees could be based upon the crew and cannon numbers of each vessel berthed, with a minimum fee for an empty berth being the same for a howker. Fees could be charged with each update, a 48 hour period, 72 hour period, etc.

Guild sponsored crews and officers can be hired for double the cost, to maintain their loyalty to the business of the guild. Maintenance fees are paid could be paid by the guild if berthed and if in use, by the member using the vessel(s).

To add another wharf with five vessels, costs could be graduated upwards, in the same manner as the officers are graduated for individuals.

If set-up like the current warehouse system, a guild could sponsor a wharf in every port.

Just kicking around a few ideas....