Hostile Natives is overbalanced

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Re: Hostile Natives is overbalanced

Postby DezNutz » Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:45 am

Mack wrote:
DezNutz wrote:
Stan Rogers wrote:Actually, there are a few Rare cards that I would nominate moving to the common list.
Antagonize, Fireship, Hidden Treasure are all curses that I would agree were they to be relegated to Common, would serve to make a new slot for something like FFJ to move in to.


I'm sure, but you do realize that by moving HNs to uncommon, you are effectively telling new(er) players that don't have large stacks of voodoo that they can't play a certain game style. You are limiting their ability to play the game by limiting their ability to attack and use voodoo to plunder.



I disagree I think there will still be many available whats the magic numbers


Yes, there will be probably be plenty left, but new players would have to trade for them, or buy credits and then voodoo packs. HNs being uncommon from the start would greatly reduce their access for new players.

As for the specific of how the formulas work, that's a question for CJ. I know from previous discussion there are set rations and formulas, but what specifically they are, I'm not sure. I could try digging for it in one of the old topics, but that's assuming it's in there and wasn't from a PM or Slack Discussion.
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Re: Hostile Natives is overbalanced

Postby Mack » Sat Dec 03, 2022 1:00 pm

there again i disagree there will be plenty available brand new people arnt ready to battle anyway are they
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Re: Hostile Natives is overbalanced

Postby sXs » Sat Dec 03, 2022 4:28 pm

This whole thread is unbalanced.

HNs are perfectly balanced as a common card. Their effectiveness depends on the targets fleet size and configuration. Captains who sail 200 fleets are going to suffer more from HNs than someone who sails 50 fleets. Flip side if that is the captain sailing 200 fleets tends to make 4X the revenue. So there is balance.
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Re: Hostile Natives is overbalanced

Postby Stan Rogers » Sat Dec 03, 2022 4:56 pm

I would contend the whole voodoo market should be updated to reflect the new realities that todays game brings.
It is a much different game than when the cards were developed and implemented.

A couple of the Rare curses I mentioned are good examples. For instance the Antagonise card is hardly even a bother. Same with the Terrorize card.
Back in the day, they were formidable but today, they are hardly a pothole in the road.
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Re: Hostile Natives is overbalanced

Postby Dmanwuzhere » Sat Dec 03, 2022 5:27 pm

lol hns allow each fleet to be hit once then they pause.... ffjs on the other hand are hn 2.0 and can possibly do real damage and they arent even rare .... let me guess if you get peppered with them they need to move too :D :D :D

quit your whining

just post your voodoo in the preferred list you want it in and send it to cj and quit moaning

the king of canada ... oops I mean lil feller in st lucia should have the coin to hit repair and fill his lil bitty boats up with cheap goods or immigrants as it were and haul azz to another port easily ....

just because you have tears doesn't mean the game is broke .... just says you are :D :D :D


I gotta keep you employed by st lucia :D :D :D :D

You begin using the voodoo curse Black Death on Gasp !

Gasp population has been reduced from 20,201,625 to 19,999,609 citizens.
A total of 202,016 people have been killed.
damages or butthurt received in the posting of these words is solely yours and yours alone
if counseling is needed therapist ahben buthert or cryin ferdays is available at the tp kleenex & creme clinic
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Re: Hostile Natives is overbalanced

Postby not a pirate » Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:34 pm

sXs wrote:This whole thread is unbalanced.

HNs are perfectly balanced as a common card. Their effectiveness depends on the targets fleet size and configuration. Captains who sail 200 fleets are going to suffer more from HNs than someone who sails 50 fleets. Flip side if that is the captain sailing 200 fleets tends to make 4X the revenue. So there is balance.

+1
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Re: Hostile Natives is overbalanced

Postby sXs » Sat Dec 03, 2022 10:39 pm

Stan Rogers wrote:I would contend the whole voodoo market should be updated to reflect the new realities that todays game brings.
It is a much different game than when the cards were developed and implemented.

A couple of the Rare curses I mentioned are good examples. For instance the Antagonise card is hardly even a bother. Same with the Terrorize card.
Back in the day, they were formidable but today, they are hardly a pothole in the road.


Exactly what criteria would be used to "update the whole voodoo market"?
And what do you mean exactly by the voodoo market? Are you talking about the player's voodoo market? It works as it should. The prices are set by sellers. They either sell or dont based on the perceived value of the bidders. Exactly how any free market is supposed to work. Higher demand means higher price.

Now if you are talking about rerating certain cards, i.e. Common, Uncommon, Rare. then the issue is who gets to determine the rating/rerating? and exactly what factors are used to decide the changes.

A few issues with rerating.
1. what do you do with current on hand inventory? The example of the OP of Hostile Natives being rerated to Rare is ridiculous. I carry between 800-1000 HNs. I find them to be useless to my style of gameplay and usually sell them on the market If they were to be rerated as rare, I would immediately be at an advantage to most players in game because I had inventory on hand before rerating...... or do we simply remove all player voodoo chests, rerate the cards and replace with equally rated cards. ...... not going to happen.....
2. players build the voodoo chests based on their style of gameplay. by rerating cards you may be either increasing perceived value or decrease perceived value based on a whim.
3. Basing rerating on market cost, as the OP suggests, is also a non-starter. Just because a card is cheap on the market has no bearing on the usefulness or value some people place on the card. As I said, I think I have cast HNs less than 10 times in the 6 or so years I have been sailing the seas of Avonmora. The card just does not fit my gameplay style. Obviously other feel differently or we wouldn't have this thread at all.

Now, all that being said, gameplay has changed. The glorious days of piracy and ship raids are over. The advent of ship traits and plantations has put and end to the black flag except for a hearty few who scrape out a living via skirmish. Card functions should be updated as well. As stated in quoted post, Antagonize could be updated to affect plantations. the mechanics do not need to change, only the target from port market to plantation.

...... enough for now..... I am old and tired..... and sober.
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Re: Hostile Natives is overbalanced

Postby Stan Rogers » Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:03 am

The sales market works well. No need to fool with it.

Regarding the price of card and their relationship in what category, I do not think the value will change pending a reclassification of it's rarity.

It fetches what the market feels its worth regardless of its scarcity designation.

Cards like Hidden Treasure I guess could be sold off in the market for maybe 25 cards/credit. Essentially a place holder in todays market and useful in your first 3-6 months of playing and after that, almost a waste of turns casting and they can't be used to help newer players.

The huge storage of new card ideas may be a place to look to see if there are more modern, useful cards that could replace it.
All in all, anything in regards to voodoo rework is fairly far down on my wish list to see changes made.
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Re: Hostile Natives is overbalanced

Postby Dmanwuzhere » Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:23 am

You begin using the voodoo curse Black Death on Gasp !

Gasp population has been reduced from 20,119,389 to 19,918,195 citizens.
A total of 201,194 people have been killed.
damages or butthurt received in the posting of these words is solely yours and yours alone
if counseling is needed therapist ahben buthert or cryin ferdays is available at the tp kleenex & creme clinic
:PP
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Re: Hostile Natives is overbalanced

Postby sXs » Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:29 am

Stan Rogers wrote:
The huge storage of new card ideas may be a place to look to see if there are more modern, useful cards that could replace it.
All in all, anything in regards to voodoo rework is fairly far down on my wish list to see changes made.


Normally I would agree with this, but history has shown even approved suggestions get ignored.
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