~~~Community Post - Solutions - Discussion~~~

[sXs]

Feniks +100 for facts
Deznutz= zero for deflection

Doesn't matter. We have no recourse.

Nothing will change

[Argo]

Feniks +100 for facts
Deznutz= zero for deflection

Doesn't matter. We have no recourse.

Nothing will change

We are in discussion right now. Please be patient. Thanks.

[DezNutz]

First of all I did not write the suggestion, someone else is the author of this thread.

So because you honestly never look at the tags, we should come up with a new feature/setup/conveyance, even though the game already provides the information openly for all to see.

As for the wiki, I simply provided where to find the link in game as well as the direct url. I'm not sure why you are trying to make some kind of argument out of it.

And to address why the wiki link is located where it is, the original intent was to have the wiki replace the "Help" at the bottom of the screen once the wiki was more complete. As the wiki is far from being sufficient to replace the Help, the link was placed only inside the Help page.

While I have been playing this game for years, you are assuming that I remember where everything is at and that I think that everyone else should also know. I've had to ask where links are located recently. I'm not against suggestions of improvement or helping those that need it.

However, when the suggestion being made is clearly already displayed openly right next to the referenced point, not hidden away in some back corner via multiple layers of pages and links, then yes I will treat it the same as someone making an "easy button" suggestion.

Would you please get the **** over yourself and read it for what it is. It was a suggestion made in good faith to try and help solve an issue that has been identified by the community. If you don't like it fine, but there is no reason for the damn condescending replies.

I made the suggestion in good faith after private discussions with a few people. I gave the reasoning for it and the reasoning is valid. Now I understand as your role as a representative of Administration of this game, you may see it as trivial, but the least you could do is act in a professional manner AS A REP of Administration and not put down the people trying to help solve the issue.

Maybe this is exactly why we are in this place to begin with. If your response and attitude are indicative of the response to an issue the players themselves have identified.... then the playerbase is absolutely correct in having no faith whatsoever in any sort of change ever happening becausew the ALL POWERFUL Dez said so.

Right and I'm the one with no facts.

[Dmanwuzhere]

So because you honestly never look at the tags, we should come up with a new feature/setup/conveyance, even though the game already provides the information openly for all to see.

As for the wiki, I simply provided where to find the link in game as well as the direct url. I'm not sure why you are trying to make some kind of argument out of it.

And to address why the wiki link is located where it is, the original intent was to have the wiki replace the "Help" at the bottom of the screen once the wiki was more complete. As the wiki is far from being sufficient to replace the Help, the link was placed only inside the Help page.

While I have been playing this game for years, you are assuming that I remember where everything is at and that I think that everyone else should also know. I've had to ask where links are located recently. I'm not against suggestions of improvement or helping those that need it.

However, when the suggestion being made is clearly already displayed openly right next to the referenced point, not hidden away in some back corner via multiple layers of pages and links, then yes I will treat it the same as someone making an "easy button" suggestion.

Would you please get the **** over yourself and read it for what it is. It was a suggestion made in good faith to try and help solve an issue that has been identified by the community. If you don't like it fine, but there is no reason for the damn condescending replies.

I made the suggestion in good faith after private discussions with a few people. I gave the reasoning for it and the reasoning is valid. Now I understand as your role as a representative of Administration of this game, you may see it as trivial, but the least you could do is act in a professional manner AS A REP of Administration and not put down the people trying to help solve the issue.

Maybe this is exactly why we are in this place to begin with. If your response and attitude are indicative of the response to an issue the players themselves have identified.... then the playerbase is absolutely correct in having no faith whatsoever in any sort of change ever happening becausew the ALL POWERFUL Dez said so.

as opposed to the same attitude and tone you are giving?
read your posts they follow the same format
state the problem as you see it
make a few digs
sarcastic closer
expect a professional response

in return you get
answer to your analysis
a dig or two back
sarcasm
a response to suit the attitude

not to mention lil suzy pretending to have a grasp on the situation enough to act as if he isn't a problem in the overall tude in any topic he's in
then make me a mod god guy shaking pom poms standing behind you contributing nothing of value let alone a modicum of self control it would take to be a mod

those don't seem to be the tools of a successful conversation

also thought i would point out that no matter how many people you talk to, when you speak you are only able to speak for yourself
if all the people you've talked to don't want to voice their opinion here in the open with facts and a rational argument then they arent looking for change but rather enjoy gripe sessions in the dark just for the negativity of it and are seeking no redress at all

you are far from dumb but in a forum there is no champion only a collection of voices
the excuse that they are skeered or don't like the climate is just lazy speak for they are not committed to affecting change themselves

carry on just wanted to point out a few things that i noticed
i personally don't see any major problems as stated before
seeing as those who report get a reaction and those who don't have to hope some mod shares their viewpoint and moderates as they would have hoped
lol must not have been too offended or an infraction so large to motivate them to hit report to test their opinion or interpretation of the rules

as for changing layouts and such that all falls on cj anyway not worth the argument imo
not to downplay your thoughts on it just adding another view

[DezNutz]

Feniks +100 for facts
Deznutz= zero for deflection

Doesn't matter. We have no recourse.

Nothing will change

Of course you have recourse, provide a suggestion that actually does something. Point 5 as written does absolutely nothing. Calling out UoH with a special tag when the topic already notates it as UoH does nothing. Adding a link to the forum rules or a to include a description of what UoH is on the Tavern Page does nothing. It's superficial at best and does nothing to get more people involved But woe to anyone who says that the idea is bad, because Dez be a Tyrant and what we want is what we want. ARGHHHHH.

If your expecting me to just give into demands and half-baked ideas all in the name of increasing forum activity and community cooperation, you thought wrong. As I wouldn't be doing the task asked of me if I was not overly critical of everything that passed through development. Come up with something better and more thought out than your Point 5.

[Dmanwuzhere]

why wait on cj?
you want links helpful to newbs?
simple make a tavern post jam packed with every link you want em to have and bump it and edit as needed with all the folks who want it implemented
if it garners support and shows its been useful you are happy and maybe cj sees a need for making links less buried
why have such vehement discussions over something you yourself and concerned users can do right now without cj without mods
simple solution that requires dedication to keep going and create but the effort is so minimal it seems the best course of action for users so passionate about it

[Banger]

CJ hasn't given a shit about this game in a long time. There is no investment in this game anymore. The game is dead. What we have us what we have until it fades into the sunset when we all slowly abandon this game for other endeavors.

[Stan Rogers]

If your expecting me to just give into demands and half-baked ideas all in the name of increasing forum activity and community cooperation, you thought wrong. As I wouldn't be doing the task asked of me if I was not overly critical of everything that passed through development. Come up with something better and more thought out than your Point 5.

And this is why I think you make a good game development co-ordinator but a lousy forum mod.
Get out while you retain your dignity. Someone with less bias will fill the position.

No, I do not want the job as it would cause too much turmoil with other players who would seek to disrupt the whole applecart however, I am confidant the position will be taken over by someone more qualified.

[PFH]

I do believe the derailing needs to end and as we should instead get back on topic. I don’t know when moderation of such will take place, hopefully soon. As we are discussing said problems, we should use them in this topic as well, and fairly too. Some posts I will not mention, are not helping the situation. Both official positioned players and unofficial positioned players alike. Let’s get back on topic shall we?

What are some things we can do as a community while we wait for CJ?

[DezNutz]

If your expecting me to just give into demands and half-baked ideas all in the name of increasing forum activity and community cooperation, you thought wrong. As I wouldn't be doing the task asked of me if I was not overly critical of everything that passed through development. Come up with something better and more thought out than your Point 5.

And this is why I think you make a good game development co-ordinator but a lousy forum mod.
Get out while you retain your dignity. Someone with less bias will fill the position.

No, I do not want the job as it would cause too much turmoil with other players who would seek to disrupt the whole applecart however, I am confidant the position will be taken over by someone more qualified.

The reality of the issue is that the solution didn't require all these forum topics or fancy suggestions/ideas. It doesn't require interface changes, forum tags, new subforums, or special rules defining topic types. It shouldn't and from my perspective doesn't require any asking of or involvement from CJ.

Anyone that has been around knows that game development is slow and almost non-existent. Doesn't take a genius to see that CJ is distant. And whatever reasons he has to be distant are his, I have no right to question them even though I want development to happen more quickly he more involved in certain aspects. But that doesn't change what we have here and what we as players can do about.

Knowing this, why on earth would anyone think that any part of the solution to the issue should include any kind of change that would require involvement from CJ. Yeah there are some forum changes that I would like to see set different that could help out with things, but those aren't the solution. They do nothing to actually fix the problems. Until forward movement on fixing the problem is shown, there is no reason to request superficial changes that do nothing for the actual problem.

In reading back through, even if we included point 5 of the suggestion, the solution provided is only part of the solution.

1) Community Involvement -
This means the community needs to take steps to be involved in the forums. If you are waiting to see changes occur, then you are part of the problem. Players need to post, make new topics, create forum games/activities, report rule violations.

2) Moderator Action-
Mods need to strictly enforce the rules in all non-Union of Honor topics. No insults or flaming outside of UoH. Netiquette is a must. The use of warnings both official and unofficial is an absolute necessity and will make a difference.


For those that don't think this is enough, they are wrong. With renewed activity and strict rule enforcement, the forums will come back to life and any issues that come along can be dealt with via strict rule enforcement. The step forward is with getting the community involved. If the only thing that ever gets posted is UoH, all you will see is the shenanigans that go on there. Other activities can and will diminish the number of UoH posts and with the help of enforcement non-UoH topics will strive. It's not going to be an easy road forward, but it is a road forward that we as a community can do ourselves.