Voodoo/Plunder System Changes

[Captain Jack]

Ahoy all,

Proposal
We need a small redesign to the voodoo/plunder system.

Why?
Because current system creates some problems, like the following:
-Players with no ships/considerably weaker ships cannot be contained.
-In contrary, players with strong/fleets can.
-A player with 0 ships can harass anyone at minimal cost and there is no way to actually stop him.
-Ship plundering is so hard and prone to a gazillion of defenses which makes even the attempts a very rare case.

Lessons Learned
-Skirmish system works as intended and is successful. A skirmish attack is not agitating players because it has fair rules and a limit in its nature. Since the limit is relevant to fleet size, it is also considered balanced.

-Fugitive of Justice and Hostile Natives are considered too powerful and the source of most problems. Most of the players consider this type as a serious offense and they react accordingly.

Things to keep in mind
-Rules that are written somewhere but are not specifically mentioned are not a good practice as they make the learning curve steeper. Since we want to correct this in order to welcome more newcomers, we will need to avoid this in anything new we create from now on. We also need to make current rules more obvious or removed.

Plunder Rules

Plunder rules, while simple as a concept, can be challenging for most. You can find the current Plunder Rules here:
https://s2.piratesglory.com/?page=help&action=plunder

Suggestion #1
I propose a change to the random ransom from 1% to 5% to 2%-4%. This slight reduce, will allow better battle preparations which will result in more large scale attacks.

Suggestion #2-a
I propose a minimum gold coins bounty, set at 10k.This will work similarly with the max bounty. If your hand is too low, you will still need to pay at least 10k for each lost plunder attack. This will not apply to Skirmishes.

I propose maximum bounty is changed to 150k from 250k.

Advanced Piracy bonus increased to 5% instead of 2%.

Suggestion #2-b
Alternatively, the minimum bounty can be made optional OR adjustable based on Voodoo used. For example, certain voodoo cards could also cast an enchantment on you which will affect this. The enchantment could be dispellable or not.

For example, when you cast a FoJ or against someone, you will get an enchantment on you, lets call it Weak Spot Revealed (WSP). This could have the effect Minimum Plunder Bounty is increased by 2.5k, stack 3, duration 24hours and a new trait called Golden Stack. This trait would allow cards to be stacked by replacing the card that expires first. If we combo this with a starting minimum bounty of 5k, then someone could reach 12.5k after casting 5 of these cards. Numbers are debatable.

I am more favorable of a combination of minimum plunder + voodoo cards as this will has less impact on newcomers.

Suggestion #2-c
We could also detach the Ransom (gold coins bounty) amount from gold at hand.
We can calculate it based on a fixed amount per fleet. Like 50k + 10% of tail.
You can't pay it, you start losing.

Alternatively, the bounty amount could play a role. When people hit a fleet, would see the bounty offered by the fleet owner. Fleet owners could have a reason to offer higher bounties. Perhaps this could grant a protection of DR accumulation for specific fleet (like -1 danger per 25k offered and minus danger allowed).

Witch Doctors

Witch Doctors have always been a problem in the game. A lot of problems arise from this. What is most annoying here in my opinion, is that you are unable to defend against them. Therefore we might need to issue some changes here.

Suggestion #3

Ship Power concept
We already have a way to calculate ship power and this is the gross value of the ships you sail. This can play a role in an upgrade to the whole voodoo system.
For every 1 million of gross value, you will have 1 Ship Power. This will be calculated hourly.

Voodoo Points concept (mana)
Voodoo cards, except of turns cost will also have mana cost. The mana will be adjusted by:
1)Turns
2)Voodoo
3)Ship Power

Ship Power will also define the maximum amount of mana you can store at every moment.

Let's see an example:

A card example:
Fugitive of Justice will require 8 mana to use and 3 turns.

Your mana pool (maximum mana stored):
200 (Basic Pool) + Ship Power

So, someone with no ships, will have a mana pool of 200.
Someone with 200M worth of ships, will have a mana pool of 400.

How mana is generated:
1 mana per hour
1 mana per Ship Power per day, distributed hourly

So, someone with 200M worth of ships, will get (is 200/24 = 8.33) 8 + 1 = 9 mana per hour. So, in 44 hours he will get his mana pool from 0 to max 400.

Someone with 500M worth of ships would get 500/24 = 20.83 = 21 + 1 = 22 mana per hour. So he would need 31 hours to fill his mana pool of 700.

Ship Power Modifier:
When casting a voodoo, we can also use ship power modifiers.
This can either prevent casting against players with big difference in ship power or to increase cost when casting against such targets or even better, both.

Ship Power Difference (SPD) = Target Difference - Your Difference

Here is an example:
SPD > 500 AND your SP is less than 200M = No cast is possible.
Which means that if your target's ships are worth 600M, you will need at least 100M worth of ships to target him.
However, if your target's ships are worth 1B, you will still be able to attack him with 200M worth of ships.

Additionally, we could use extra cost for ship cost modifiers:
For ever 100 SPD diffence, mana cost is increased by 1, maximum double the original cost.

This should also reflect the difficulty of attacking a much larger opponent than you.

The original mana cost for cards will be the current turn cost, however we will reduce the turn cost for all cards.

Based on the above suggestions, let's see how reality will be shaped:
Someone with 0 Ships will not be able to touch anyone with ships gross value greater than 500.
Someone with 200 Ship power (200M gross value), will be able to attack anyone.
When someone with 200 SP casts a FoJ against someone with 600SP, he will pay 8+4 mana = 12 mana per FoJ
This means he will be able to cast a total of 33 FoJ before his mana pool is depleted.

With the addition of new cards, even techs/buildings etc for mana, we will be able to control better the voodoo.



=======================

CONCLUSION

The mana system will definitely need a lot of side up suggestions, like cards suggestions. However a basic system that is not too restrictive should precede and we can continue from there, after we got first hand experience. Therefore the numbers given are intentionally relaxed, in order to make the initial launch as less impactful as possible and build from there. Of course, you can suggest numbers for both initial launch and later on.

A good example is the mana generation, which, as proposed now, is very generous.


The aforementioned suggestions do not need a long time of implementation. Their impact however is big.
The Dev Team Coordinator DezNutz will guide this conversation in order to reach a valid ground of what can implemented now and what can wait.

[William one eye]

I feel this is a huge step in the direction of incremental mercant and plantation play.

I thought this game was called pirates glory.

If you want to hurt witch doctors i suggest not using standard turns for casting and instead have a secondary set of turns used only for casting that are earned by doing various positive gameplay activities. Such as owning and sailing ships,
Attacking at sea, moving gold cargo or immigrant. Ect.
So if you want to cast you must also play like a normal player.

More alternate ship to ship combat routes would be nice.
Other than just skirmish, or voodoo generated danger.

[sXs]

Shaman of the seas suggestion was already approved and addresses the witch doctor issue in a much easier way..... needs a few changes but it is easier and would tie into all aspects of the game seamlessly..

https://www.piratesglory.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=3966&hilit=shaman

Also, ship power calculator is flawed. I understand the reasoning and it is sound, but no requirement the ship be sailing. Simply acquire 1000 hawkers, cutter and dont fleet them. In almost all cases that is enough to meet the requirement to be able to cast on someone.

In this way shaman of the seas is also a much better solution. Cards are loaded in the lead ship of a fleet. Could simply put the value requireent on which ships can carry voodoo.

[Shadowood]

There is a lot to digest in this topic so I will try to go bit by bit.

1. Small Redesign: Not sure this is small, but it will for sure change the way battle takes place if implemented
2. Why?: It seems like we are trying to address the perceived problem of a "Witch Doctor". In this game, everyone has the same limitations with the biggest coming in the form of TURNS. Take away a casters turns and he/she can't harm you. Take away their voodoo or they run out of voodoo, they can't harm you. We already have system in place. Magpies, Time Spiral and of course the Turn Cap.
3. Lessons Learned: I also think Skirmish is a fair play system, but its boring. You logon, use your alloted turns, make a small amount of coins, log off. This game has a system in place that is SO MUCH MORE FUN. Plundering. There are too few in the game that know the thrill and skill it takes to pull off a good plunder of a few good ships. I am not talking about LMMs.... But SOTL and Man of WAR! I not be in favor of any system that takes this ability away. So far, this proposed one doesn't look like it will for now...
- FoJ and HN's: When these cards are used, you light up a target for the whole system to hit on. If these cards only lit up this player for you or your guild, then again, TURNS will come into play and limit the amount of hits one player could receive. Just a thought.
4. Things to keep in mind: If we are concerned about new comers, then make protections specific for them, but dont handicap the vets hitting vets.
5. Plunder Rules: Simple but Challenging?? I don't understand this statement CJ. You are right in the first part. They are simple to understand. You have them printed in the help section in Black and White. These are not challenging. If some feel this way, then perhaps just adding a little more verbiage to your description is sufficient.
- Suggestion #1: I am fine with the change of ransom to 2%-4%. The average is still 3%. I see no change here.
- Suggestion #2: I actually like this. It makes the attacker keep more gold on hand. However, be aware of those who will use this as an advantage to simply loose a ship/fleet with high danger.
- Suggestion #2b: I'm fine with this, but see comment above.
Witch Doctors: You are unable to defend against them. This simply is not true, unless you are new. Again Turns and Voodoo will help defend and Turns and Voodoo are limited to a Witch Doctor.
- Suggestion #3: I like that this is based on Gross Ship Value and not Total Ships. A pirate or privateer can still run minimal ships, however it will force them to use bigger ships (Frig-SOTL) if they want keep a good Ship Power. It will "appease" those who argue that there is nothing to retaliate on if there is a Witch Doctor/Griefing situation.
If Mana comes into play, Voodoo should not cost Turns and Mana. Just Mana. Just my opinion on that.

[sXs]

- Suggestion #3: I like that this is based on Gross Ship Value and not Total Ships. A pirate or privateer can still run minimal ships, however it will force them to use bigger ships (Frig-SOTL) if they want keep a good Ship Power. .

I disagree on this point.

This will limit pirates to smaller and newer captains. Theyw ill not be able to attempt raids against large traders..... at least not as written now. Total ship power calculation would limit pirates.

typical pirates sails maybe 10 fleets..... maybe Frig frig cutter. 30 ships.
total gross value around 90 million.

Here is an example:
SPD > 500 AND your SP is less than 200M = No cast is possible.
Which means that if your target's ships are worth 600M, you will need at least 100M worth of ships to target him.
However, if your target's ships are worth 1B, you will still be able to attack him with 200M worth of ships.

[Captain Jack]

I worked some numbers on the cases above.

I used 3% average and 150k as maximum bounty (instead of current 250k)
150k max bounty means that every 10M a player carries, add an extra 66 defends (in comparison to current 40 that 250k currently allow)
Advanced Piracy affects these values a bit.


Lets see the changes that minimum bounty brings:

No min bounty:
20M depleted at 265 attacks

5k min bounty
20M depleted at 239 attacks

10k min bounty
20M depleted at 220 attacks

15k min bounty
20M depleted at 207 attacks


For comparison, currently (250k max, no min bounty) we have:
20M depleted at 229 attacks

[Captain Jack]

- Suggestion #3: I like that this is based on Gross Ship Value and not Total Ships. A pirate or privateer can still run minimal ships, however it will force them to use bigger ships (Frig-SOTL) if they want keep a good Ship Power. .

I disagree on this point.

This will limit pirates to smaller and newer captains. Theyw ill not be able to attempt raids against large traders..... at least not as written now. Total ship power calculation would limit pirates.

typical pirates sails maybe 10 fleets..... maybe Frig frig cutter. 30 ships.
total gross value around 90 million.

Here is an example:
SPD > 500 AND your SP is less than 200M = No cast is possible.
Which means that if your target's ships are worth 600M, you will need at least 100M worth of ships to target him.
However, if your target's ships are worth 1B, you will still be able to attack him with 200M worth of ships.

1 Sol lvl 10 is around 17M
1 Frig lvl 10 is around 5M
1 Cutter lvl 10 is around 235k

So, 2xFrigs + 3xCutters = 10.5M

So 10 such fleets are around 100M.

But when you attack a player with 600M worth or greater, then this player SURELY has SoLs!!!
So, you are going to need sols too to beat him. With no SoLs, it means that you are acting on someone else behalf. At this case, it is better this someone else cast so the defending player can attack the benefactor.

So, in the case you need sols, you are calculating at least 2 Lvl 10 Sols, 1 Frig and 2 cutters, aka around 40M per fleet. 3 Such fleets and you are well above 200M and in range to attack such player on your own, after you light him up.

[sXs]

- Suggestion #3: I like that this is based on Gross Ship Value and not Total Ships. A pirate or privateer can still run minimal ships, however it will force them to use bigger ships (Frig-SOTL) if they want keep a good Ship Power. .

I disagree on this point.

This will limit pirates to smaller and newer captains. Theyw ill not be able to attempt raids against large traders..... at least not as written now. Total ship power calculation would limit pirates.

typical pirates sails maybe 10 fleets..... maybe Frig frig cutter. 30 ships.
total gross value around 90 million.

Here is an example:
SPD > 500 AND your SP is less than 200M = No cast is possible.
Which means that if your target's ships are worth 600M, you will need at least 100M worth of ships to target him.
However, if your target's ships are worth 1B, you will still be able to attack him with 200M worth of ships.

1 Sol lvl 10 is around 17M
1 Frig lvl 10 is around 5M
1 Cutter lvl 10 is around 235k

So, 2xFrigs + 3xCutters = 10.5M

So 10 such fleets are around 100M.

But when you attack a player with 600M worth or greater, then this player SURELY has SoLs!!!
So, you are going to need sols too to beat him. With no SoLs, it means that you are acting on someone else behalf. At this case, it is better this someone else cast so the defending player can attack the benefactor.

So, in the case you need sols, you are calculating at least 2 Lvl 10 Sols, 1 Frig and 2 cutters, aka around 40M per fleet. 3 Such fleets and you are well above 200M and in range to attack such player on your own, after you light him up.

One comment......... CDV

If you change it to total value of ships sailing instead of total gross value then it would be much better.

[Shadowood]

Agreed. It should be gross value of ships sailing.

If you included ships out of fleet you could cheat the system the way it’s being presented here.

[DezNutz]

By ships sailing, you mean ships in a fleet.