Forum Toxicity - An Open Discussion

[Dmanwuzhere]

How did we go from wanting to be active about monitoring forums and helping moderators keep things civilized to blaming moderators?

Let's keep it simple "If you see something, Report to a moderator" This includes if a moderator needs to be moderated.

it was an organic progression and technically the topic was forum toxicity
so if it is to be considered "attacking" by describing toxic forum behavior subjectively as individuals then its not an open discussion
only by adding all the subjective material from individuals can you ever hope to reach an objective view .... unless of course you just throw out a bunch of new rules and label it tyranny

[PhoenixKnight]

Not really. I just think it is more fruitful to focus on the solution and not the problem. In my mind all of them have the same root cause.

[Argo]

I just think it is more fruitful to focus on the solution and not the problem.

[Dmanwuzhere]

Not really. I just think it is more fruitful to focus on the solution and not the problem. In my mind all of them have the same
root cause.

i see
of course all doctors do that
why bother with a diagnosis or a second opinion
just dispense any medication its bound to work despite the illness

you will notice you said in your mind and of course thats subjective
there are many more minds than mine or yours

i would try the superiority approach seeing as i was born with two brains
but i better not since one is out looking for the other

[Padrevaters]

i have had the same issue and more recently than some
it was with the warning for name calling after being told voicing my dissent with what the topic was about would not be allowed
right afterwards the mod in question began name calling
and while he got a warning for breaking at will the same rule he was enforcing
nothing happened about the abuse of admin power to tell me i could not voice my dissent in a topic designed for it or i would get a ban

Perhaps I should have given some sort of punishment for what was said, instead of just apologizing for . Again, I will confess I can be, overly lenient. I do not like to punish others, and prefer to let most folks get by with verbal warnings.

Perhaps from this point on, I will keep a personal list of strikes, and upon striking out, I will either temporarily, or if the case is serious enough permanently remove the individual from the mod list.

However I will ask that, those who have an issue, please, message me about it rather then post things in the forums, as otherwise it can be seen as mod baiting. I will gladly hear anyone out if they have an issue with any of the mods, or myself, and will do my best to be as fair as possible to all parties.

How can anything you say against the moderator be mod baiting if you take offense to what the mod is stating in the first place?!? That's partisan thought. I reiterate what I stated earlier. If you are a mod, behave like a mod. If the mod intends to play (including in forum conversations) and baits an individual, then the response given to the mod is not baiting. He should be treated as a player.

[PhoenixKnight]

Dmanwuzhere, I am but one person and perhaps my view as you said is flawed.
Let me work this issue systematically so we can build on this objectively.
of course this is a single person effort. Typically this process involves multiple people discussing over a round table.

Problem Definition: toxic posts reduce the game popularity and drives players to abandon forums which is an important game aspect

Root cause analysis:5 whys
1. Why are toxic posts causing a problem?
A. Because moderators are not removing them fast enough.

2. Why are moderators not removing toxic posts?
A. Toxic posts are not reported fast enough
B. No moderators are online at the time of the report
C. A Moderator is engaged in the toxic behavior

3.1 Why are toxic posts not reported fast enough
A. Players are engaged in the toxic behavior
B. Players choose to ignore the post
C. Too many posts and no one dig into them
D. Players did not think about reporting
E. Player was not sure about the forum guidelines
3.2 Why are there no moderators online at the time of the report?
A. The were engaged in IRL
B. They did not check the forums while playing
C. Their time zone did not allow them to
3.3 why was a moderator engaged in toxic behavior?
A. Because it personally insulted them and the did not exercise self control and sound judgment.

4.1.1 why are players engaged in toxic behavior?
A. Because it personally insulted them and the did not exercise self control and sound judgment.
4.1.2 why did player choose to ignite toxic post?
A. They considered it unworthy of attention and did not consider further impact on the game community
4.1.3 Why are there too many posts and no one dig into old posts?
A. Game is popular and players are engaged.
4.1.4 Why did a player not think of reporting?
A. Player did not consider potential harm from the post to the game community
4.1.5 why is player not aware of forum guidelines?
A. Player forgot them after a long time, forgot their location or never saw them to begin with.
4.2. No further value added whys can be identified
4.3 No further value added whys can be identified

5.1 No further value added whys can be identified
5.2 No further value added whys can be identified
5.3 No further value added whys can be identified
5.4 No further value added whys can be identified
5.5 why did player forget or did not know about the guidelines?
A. They are a one time note stored in one location without refreshers to remind players of them.

Possible solutions:
1. Implementing a mechanism to regularly remind players of the guidelines
2. Assign more moderators across time zones with multiple in the same time zone.
3. Moderators regularly go through forum posts for violations
4. More déterrant measures against violators
5. All moderators receive notification from a common mailbox when report is submitted
6. Players need to exercice sound judgement and consider the community as a whole with every post they submit or read.
7. Both players and moderators need to be vigilant

[DezNutz]

i have had the same issue and more recently than some
it was with the warning for name calling after being told voicing my dissent with what the topic was about would not be allowed
right afterwards the mod in question began name calling
and while he got a warning for breaking at will the same rule he was enforcing
nothing happened about the abuse of admin power to tell me i could not voice my dissent in a topic designed for it or i would get a ban

Perhaps I should have given some sort of punishment for what was said, instead of just apologizing for . Again, I will confess I can be, overly lenient. I do not like to punish others, and prefer to let most folks get by with verbal warnings.

Perhaps from this point on, I will keep a personal list of strikes, and upon striking out, I will either temporarily, or if the case is serious enough permanently remove the individual from the mod list.

However I will ask that, those who have an issue, please, message me about it rather then post things in the forums, as otherwise it can be seen as mod baiting. I will gladly hear anyone out if they have an issue with any of the mods, or myself, and will do my best to be as fair as possible to all parties.

How can anything you say against the moderator be mod baiting if you take offense to what the mod is stating in the first place?!? That's partisan thought. I reiterate what I stated earlier. If you are a mod, behave like a mod. If the mod intends to play (including in forum conversations) and baits an individual, then the response given to the mod is not baiting. He should be treated as a player.

A mod/player admin is still expected to play the game to the fullest like a normal player. This is can be difficult for many as there has to be a separation point. In general, unless they are actively performing their duties, they are just a normal player. IMO, this means that if you are in discussion/debate with a player who happens to be a mod/admin, they should act as if they are not. If actions need to be taken in regards to the discussion, than another mod/admin should perform them and step in. Only under specific circumstances, such as a blatant and purposeful rule violation, should they use their mod/admin abilities within the situation. And even then, their actions would and should be reviewed to ensure no bias had occurred.

[Padrevaters]

The separation point lies in the 'additional' role of a moderator. It is an additional task. Do not treat it as a perk. When a mod acts in a forum discussion, he should either refrain from participating in arguments/discussions as a mod. Else, participate in the discussion as a player and do not use your mod powers. Moderator actions should be left to non participant moderators. When you treat it as a perk, you are being partisan in blocking players.

You can't perform both tasks and then claim to be a neutral mod.

Best way is to have a checkbox for all moderators when they want to participate in a discussion. If they click on yes, they would be able to chat, but their mod features are disabled. If they click on No, then their ability to chat is disabled, only mod functionality to ban/remove texts is enabled. How difficult is that?

[Dmanwuzhere]

phoenix why would the root cause analysis 1a be the solution?
if it were a daycare i might agree but its not
my interpretation of the post is how to get us as a community posting less toxic posts
putting it on the mods entirely is lazy and defeats the point of an open discussion

dez said "we as a community"

while mods are part of the solution (the band aid part) as it is just a temporary fix
the real work is on/for/by the community as a whole

to be quite honest though i think the whole toxic posts complaint is a farce
here we are no toxicity in the post and there is a small percentage of the community posting

the rest of your work up in parts is sound imo but anything that just makes mods the end all action to remove toxicity will not remove the root cause
or end toxicity

[Padrevaters]

phoenix why would the root cause analysis 1a be the solution?
if it were a daycare i might agree but its not
my interpretation of the post is how to get us as a community posting less toxic posts
putting it on the mods entirely is lazy and defeats the point of an open discussion

dez said "we as a community"

while mods are part of the solution (the band aid part) as it is just a temporary fix
the real work is on/for/by the community as a whole

to be quiet honest though i think the whole toxic posts complaint is a farce
here we are no toxicity in the post and there is a small percentage of the community posting

the rest of your work up in parts is sound imo but anything that just makes mods the end all action to remove toxicity will not remove the root cause
or end toxicity

I agree, Dmanz. A year back, I felt targeted. Now I know the design of the game and the banter combined with it being a pirates game, is what makes it appear toxic. I am ok, even if players go overboard and mods start regulating the commentary. A moderator makes all the difference to the enjoyment of the 'toxic' pirates banter. Even if he doesn't do anything, and if I want my revenge, I would probably use a few voodoo casts and keep targeting you and then forget about it after some time. So even if there is no mod, I would still enjoy the game as it is meant to be. But with a partisan mod, you feel stifled when your commentary, your basic right of speech is cut off. That's not acceptable.