Trump 2020!

[Meliva]

Guys i NEVER wrote to legalize people. I just wrote that USA is a country born from illegal migrations. When europeans conquered america, it was not in a legal way.
What i say is to find a solution to integrate those who come, instead of hoping they won't come back. In their countries they risk their life, so they will also risk their lives in USA, they don't care.
I never said to open borders. I said to make a different system of integration. Overall in the past with the problem you generated with your own laws of ius soli (who is born on american soil is american) generated entire generations of americans born from illegal migrants. So, find a way to integrate them. No ?

About killing an iranian guy on iraqi territory. Of course it is a bad move. Why always this increass in violence im USA ? you always cry that 9/11 happened, forgetting that you caused sufferences to those same people in afghanistan in the 1980's. So if every person or nation on the planet, who has been harmed by USA, would revenge... you would have many more 9/11. Again i don't say to close bothe eyes, just eliminate people in a more discrete way or don't kill who is unknown. Who knew about this general ? Nobody. Now you kill him and his face is everywhere as a martyr. You risk oyhrr american lives to kill one unknown guy ? Enemy or guilty or whatever, he wad not popular and you could kill him in a less theatral way. Again, bad move.

Meliva, trade agreements are not only a piece of paper where you write that you agree to shsre sugar with your neighbor. It is much more complicate. And if you signed that you agree om free borders for the members of the agreement, then you can't close borders or the agreement is closed. So now what, do you block trade with mexico for billion of dollars of you find a way to solve migratuons ? No lobby of trade will ever agree to erase trade agreements as NAFTA, not even trump, who is firstly a businessman. He knows the value of the treaty. Same with china, he tries to be the boss but chinese have the power of huge investments

Whit, it seems like you really don't know what you're talking about. What's the difference between integrating illegal immigrants and legalizing them? Are you saying that we should just let them stay and work and not bother deporting them? Because that opens up businesses being able to hire workers who would work for under minimum wage as since they are not legal citizens many laws won't matter to them. That would be very bad for blue collar workers. It also means that immigrants will know that they can enter illegally without needing to worry about being punished.

On the Iranian general-That guy also was NOT widely unknown. He was a MAJOR figure in the middle east. Just because you didn't know him doesn't make him some nobody. The man was a bloody GENERAL-and a very influential and powerful one at that. You do know that a general is basically the HIGHEST rank in most militaries right? That alone should have told you he wasn't a nobody, regardless if you personally knew of him or not. Sure killing him has made him a martyr, but he was a dangerous threat regardless, it's better that we have removed him rather then let him continue gaining power and influence.

And yes of course trade agreements are more complicated, that was just a basic example. And where in the world did you get the idea that we have a signed agreement with ANYONE about free borders? That might be something in the EU, but we certainly never made any agreement like that with Mexico. We do have trade agreements with them, but trade isn't the same as a migration agreement. Those 2 things are NOT intertwined in any way. Well except if what's being traded ARE people, but that's slavery which is illegal as well in the US. We can buy fruits, vegetables, and products from Mexico without also promising open borders. Sure we COULD do both and have open borders with trade, but we DON"T want open borders with them.

Also, once an agreement is made that doesn't mean it's set in stone and no longer negotiable. A good agreement one day could be viewed as negative later on-then one or more party can propose to either alter the deal to be more favorable or abandon it entirely. Trump has done a lot of that-trying to renegotiate deals to be more favorable. Hell he recently did a remake of NAFTA, and even some of those who oppose him agreed that the new deal was indeed better.

[Dmanwuzhere]

yes whit we came as migrants as did the indians you can check they arrived via some very interesting places however through war and land purchases we made it a nation
now that nation has rules and you abide by them or you should face consequences the end

as for the general he had control over many militias and second in influence only to the ayatollah currently in power and truth be known many thought better of him but to have voiced that favoritism would have got them beheaded or worse and their families could be tortured

i really think you need to stay out of mainstream media and research the many facets you are trying to master by viewing documentation with no party affiliations and as hard as that may seem its possible

everyone understands good intentions however when your moral code affects millions you really need to take a lot more into consideration

one of the policies i disagreed with that trump agreed to happened soon after he entered office and it included 3 years being added to dacas then current plan
the fact is he opposed it himself but was trying to accomplish bipartisan funding for the wall and at the time thats what it took
trump showed in that however his willingness to work with the morons that have spent every day of his presidency fighting for personal goals and not the goals of a nation.
they need those dem votes and are willing to sell the nation out for power
you tell me who the real mad women and men are with that as the goal and not the american people which by the way american doesnt mean white it means every legal citizen despite race
alluding to the opposite only shows your own racist and bigoted view

[Whitcomb The Feared]

dman you provided no data nor facts, and i am the guy influenced by media ? come on !

The iranian general was maybe one close to the ayatollah, but who cares ? why always america has to control what other do ? USA never understand that being involved in others wars or issues, somethin bad will be also attraced. just see 9/11. why joining afghanistan in 1980s and providing to talibans weapons, money and training to fight communists ? at the end you didn't care ! but no, let's being involved in some others affairs and then 9/11 happens cause the guys we trained and armed now attack New York.
USA attacked irak, kuwait, ... tried to kill communist dictators in south america to put new right-sided dictators. Why caring ? USA is a superpower, you can survive without intervening in every foreign problem
what here - europeans in general - we don't like is that americans want to be involved in every situation, not respecting freedom of other states. If iran has bad people, let them living in iran without intervening. Yeah they attacked the american embassy long time ago, but it doesn't mean that you have to intervene militarly ... you will face revenge sooner or later. why risking more american lives ?


Meliva,
he was general of the islamic revolutionary forces, he was not bloody, he was a guy who worked in an idric firm lol. If he was bad in his own country, WHO cares ? americans kill people and nobody cares ! you kill talibans, civilians, people around the wolrd and nobody condamn you nor consider you bloody, we just don't care.
About treaties, they can be changed of course. But don't expect that mexican or other partners will agree on everything. Even if trump (or whoever) wants to change a treaty, he needs the agreement of other members of the treaty. so now, if you can change it cause your bargain power is high, do it. maybe with mexico it will work, but not sure with china.

[Meliva]

dman you provided no data nor facts, and i am the guy influenced by media ? come on !

The iranian general was maybe one close to the ayatollah, but who cares ? why always america has to control what other do ? USA never understand that being involved in others wars or issues, somethin bad will be also attraced. just see 9/11. why joining afghanistan in 1980s and providing to talibans weapons, money and training to fight communists ? at the end you didn't care ! but no, let's being involved in some others affairs and then 9/11 happens cause the guys we trained and armed now attack New York.
USA attacked irak, kuwait, ... tried to kill communist dictators in south america to put new right-sided dictators. Why caring ? USA is a superpower, you can survive without intervening in every foreign problem
what here - europeans in general - we don't like is that americans want to be involved in every situation, not respecting freedom of other states. If iran has bad people, let them living in iran without intervening. Yeah they attacked the american embassy long time ago, but it doesn't mean that you have to intervene militarly ... you will face revenge sooner or later. why risking more american lives ?


Meliva,
he was general of the islamic revolutionary forces, he was not bloody, he was a guy who worked in an idric firm lol. If he was bad in his own country, WHO cares ? americans kill people and nobody cares ! you kill talibans, civilians, people around the wolrd and nobody condamn you nor consider you bloody, we just don't care.
About treaties, they can be changed of course. But don't expect that mexican or other partners will agree on everything. Even if trump (or whoever) wants to change a treaty, he needs the agreement of other members of the treaty. so now, if you can change it cause your bargain power is high, do it. maybe with mexico it will work, but not sure with china.

And once again, you don't know what you're talking about. You do realize that many of those countries have some of the WORST policies and laws on human rights? Here's a few hypothetical examples.

"what's that? Mike is gay? Well let's go on and toss his arse off a roof, don't need that type of demon here." "Suzy want's a proper education? Her arse needs to stay in the kitchen, not read books, that's for the men folk." "did you hear Robert's wife went out dressed as a slut? You could see a small part of her neck! Course we took her out back and gave her a proper stoning."

These people also live by a book that literally instructs them to MURDER those who do not live by that same book. But yeah sure, let's let them continue doing war crimes, and violating peoples human rights. Doesn't hurt us or anything.

And also, when I said he was a bloody general that wasn't meant literally-bloody is a term often used by English to emphasize a point. Sort of like if I said he was a Fcking general, or he was a god-damned general. And also he WAS bloody literally speaking too. You do know what a general does right? As in, a person who leads soldiers? And soldiers being people who fight and kill for their country? Which is a very bloody affair? The man might not have personally killed someone himself(or he might have, I don't know his career history, he probably has frankly) But he's definitely given orders to have folks killed. He's made threats to the US in the past as well.

And you say nobody cares or condemns us for killing or fighting? Mate, you literally are stating that we shouldn't be getting involved in other's affairs in this very argument. You are literally telling us that we should mind our own business. It's crazy how you say one thing one moment and then say another the next.

You seem to have very weird beliefs frankly. You say we should integrate illegal immigrants and treat them nice while also saying to ignore the countries that, quite honestly CAUSE many people to want to immigrate to new land. And I'd like you to clarify that also. How do you propose we integrate illegals? You say we don't need to legalize them, so do you suggest they just remain here to do whatever unpunished? Working for less then minimum and stealing jobs from citizens?

[Caladan]

These people also live by a book that literally instructs them to MURDER those who do not live by that same book. But yeah sure, let's let them continue doing war crimes, and violating peoples human rights. Doesn't hurt us or anything.

That is a misinterpretation actually, the verse in the quran says: "And when the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolaters wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful."
The verse does not say infidels it says idolaters. This verse talks about 5 tribes who continued to attack muslims


And you say nobody cares or condemns us for killing or fighting? Mate, you literally are stating that we shouldn't be getting involved in other's affairs in this very argument. You are literally telling us that we should mind our own business. It's crazy how you say one thing one moment and then say another the next.

During the last 70 years, what good have come from US interference? And when did you get involved without it being in self interest?
how many governments have you toppled, just to have them replaced by dictators?

[Meliva]

These people also live by a book that literally instructs them to MURDER those who do not live by that same book. But yeah sure, let's let them continue doing war crimes, and violating peoples human rights. Doesn't hurt us or anything.

That is a misinterpretation actually, the verse in the quran says: "And when the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolaters wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful."
The verse does not say infidels it says idolaters. This verse talks about 5 tribes who continued to attack muslims


And you say nobody cares or condemns us for killing or fighting? Mate, you literally are stating that we shouldn't be getting involved in other's affairs in this very argument. You are literally telling us that we should mind our own business. It's crazy how you say one thing one moment and then say another the next.

During the last 70 years, what good have come from US interference? And when did you get involved without it being in self interest?
how many governments have you toppled, just to have them replaced by dictators?

Mind explaining this then mate?

"Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection."
Quran 9:29

Frankly I could easily post more examples of how that book has some very evil and immoral lessons, but religion is not really allowed to be talked about in the forums-but if you want to have this discussed in PM's by all means feel free to message me about it.

As for what good has come from our interference, well gee lets see.

We helped South Korea defend against North Korea. We have helped Israel avoid getting wiped off the map from their neighbors. We send quite a lot of money to foreign countries to help them. Also many of the governments we toppled were ALREADY run by dictators-we simply removed the ones that were against us and put a new one that was more friendly to us. Not the nicest thing granted, but an effective strategy. Sure, we have caused some harm here and there, and frankly I do think the US needs to be less involved in other countries, but I also think a lot of other countries need to get their act together.

[Caladan]

"And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and with all their soul, but that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman."

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."

Those are from the bible, no better in my opinion.

So you think it's good that Isreal is trying to wipe out the Palestine's?
In 1953, Iran had a democratically elected Prime Minister, who were doing alot of good for his country, but he decided to nationalize the Iranion oil industry, and that was something the US and UK couldn't allow. And we all know how all that turned out.....
And what about the taliban? Pinochet in Chile? those had good outcomes?

We, Norway, gives Billions in aid every year as well, but we don't go around beating our chests about it

[Whitcomb The Feared]

Meliva,
USA have segregated (and sometimes even killed) black people in the last century and nobody intervened because you had bad human rights. Because we all fix our own problems, we don't intervene elsewhere. And please, talk to iranians instead of repeating what you read from american sources. Teheran is not a capital full of talibans murdering, it is not anymore the iran of 1980-90. Iran is a quite prosper nation, of course still full of religious conceptions, but still quite prospering in every domain. But again, who is trump to murder people around just because they are bad in their own countries lol ... USA intervened too many times, stay quiet and in your corner, you are not the world police. As Calavan said, USA started too many wars and interfered too many times in political process just to improve their geopolitical power.
On human rights, USA is not a great model lol. better not teaching lessons cause you are not the best example.

The bible is also full of violence lol not only the coran. By the way, they are killing each other for the same religion, ISLAM. just iran is shiite while all american allies (Saudi arabia, ...) are sunnites. Magically even Syrian dictator Al Assad is shiite and allied to iran. And magically USA are against Syrian dictator, against iran and supporting their sunnite allies (Turkey, Saudi Arabia, ...).

Intervening in Korea just because communists would have taken the region ? who cares lol. Intervening in Vietnam cause they were becoming communists. Intervening in Afghanistan just to annoy soviets. Intervening in irak for never found mass destruction weapons. Intervening in Syria just to annoy russia and now even killing a general who was killing ISIS. Intervening in Iran asking them not to detain nuclear weapons when USA are the largest detainer of nuclear weapons. Embargo on Cuba because they were communists. Intervening in guatemala by helping narcos to destabilize them (now narcos are ultra powerful mafia at the border with USA). During the last century, the bloodiest army in the world has been the US army, killing more people on this planet during all its wars.
Well done ... lol

I always said the same thing. USA should fix its own problems instead of going around waging war. And yeah nobody cares about what USA do, just stop financing military systems around the globe to obtain people on your side to fight your wars. HEre many countries left or plan to leave you alone in afghanistan, many politicians lost their seats cause they wasted life in afghanistan to follow USA.

About migrants, there is a nice quote i heard once in italy. Also a country where people cry for migrants stealing jobs. If a migrant who doesn't speak your language, without a diploma and without any contacts steal your job ... you are maybe a f*king idiot and if american firms hire migrants to pay them less, this is a problem generated by american, making other americans suffering from it. It isn't a problem generated by migrants, but by firms which hire migrants lol. Here in switzerland we have many different types of Visas. You can enter as a refugeee but then respecting some laws and it is temporary. Then you can acquire other documents to stay as a temporary resident, then permanent resident and then even taking the citizenship. But this takes time ! you need to learn not only 1 language but 3, cause switzerland has 3 national languages. you need to integrate yourself or in the process if you don't fulfill some requirements, they bring you home. Intead of just bringing people back to mexico cause they are illegals.

Oh and the iranian general worked for a water company, then he became part of the islamic revolutionary guards, a military group of Iran helping other shiites nations or groups. Of course many of those groups fight against Israel and Sunnite nations (allied with USA). it is normal that USA consider them enemies, and at the same time they consider also as an enemy the general commanding those guards ... but now, killing him ... they will strike on USA or even make new terroristic attacks, just because you wanted to kill a general lol.


And Caladan is right. Israel is a state created in 1948 from english and french colonies in the middle east ! of course if you put jew colons in a territory with muslim palestinese, a war will start. But of course, when USA declare a new country, everyone have to follow or they are terrorists. Palestina is just "defending" their own territories, but Hezbollah is defined as terroristic group by USA. Stop intervening and maybe things will be better.

[Mack]

How many people has the US military killed through the years?


You keep saying nobody cares if nobody cares how come you think you know so much about something that no one cares about

[Caladan]

How many people has the US military killed through the years?


You keep saying nobody cares if nobody cares how come you think you know so much about something that no one cares about

I do believe there is a difference between not caring and not knowing....