Trump 2020!

[Whitcomb The Feared]

El Draque, your last statement has no sense

Sure the dems were the ones who owned every slave (reason i know this, is the republicans were created to combat slavery ), and sure the dems fought against Universal suffrage (rich republican woman is reason that movement started), and yes, the southern demarcates started the KKK and yes, the southern demarcates enacted the Jim Crow Laws, and yes most of the dems voted against the republicans civil rights act, but it looked like they were finally getting there stuff together in the early 2000's, but now they are just as divisive as ever. As and independent, Its disappointing.

it doesn't mean that if republicans were created to fight slavery, that the opposition was necessarily democrat. In the 1800s there was the Republican-Democrat party which divided in a new party called Republicans and the old party Republican-Democrats. This doesn't mean that the new Republicans were against Democrats lol they were not really separated. The republicans had the north and republican-democrats the south, republicans just wanted to abolish slavery, maybe on economical and political ground they had same ideas as the republican-democrats.
Nowadays it is the opposite, Democrats are more politically similar to the old Republicans of 1800 and viceversa. Republicans nowadays are more conservative on social and on economical concepts, while democrats are more liberal (or even interventionists via public expenditures) on political, social and economical matters.

So don't confuse names with history Old republicans of 1800 left the party to abolish slavery, this doesn't mean they were politically close to left conceptions as the new deal of roosevel or obamacare.

According to me, one of the biggest problem in your two-party political system is that americans tend to mix topics. Categories as social views, economical views, religious views, ...
But in USA you can have democrats who are generally more left sided on economical ground but at the same time some more right sided in social views (more "racists", more preference to the resident) than others who promote equality.
I am swiss and i see this very well. Here we have several parties covering all the topics in different ways, so we can define "precisely" every politician. For example we have the socialist party very left sided economically and left sided on sociality (promoting gov intervention in economy and social equality) but at the same time there is a "church" party promoting left sided economic policies but they are very conservative on the social ground (against gay marriages, ...). Same on the right side, some parties very liberal on economic and social ground, some extreme-right who are conservative on everything. In this way we can "categorize" better people and ideas.

In USA honestly i have never understood who is who. We always see democrats as left sided but when you analyze Obama he was maybe left sided on sociality (even if he started to close southern borders and to move migrants) but he was also sometimes very conservative in economics and also very left sided with obamacare. Same for Trump, very conservative on sociality but on economics he is also very interventionist by funding some gov departmenents as the army (gov intervention is a very left sided vision) but at the same time he wants to lower taxes, very liberal view (and not so coherent but ...)

[Mack]

i think he was stressing the point that have been previously brought up in this conversation like racism which is primarily what you were talking about also which he was right and what you agreed with in this last comment that the Republicans were against slavery and racism at their core and I don't know how anyone could believe it's any different now

The only thing people keep coming back with when I ask how is the Republican party or Trump racist is the fact that they want to build a wall across the southern border with Mexico. I can't see this as racist I see this as protecting our nation as there are many evil and nasty people crossing the border and killing many of our citizens bringing all kinds of nasty ugly drugs across the border which is also killing millions of people our citizens in our nation if this isn't a problem I don't know what is if we're not allowed to take care of this problem by building a wall because it's racist I fear for our children and their children and so on..

it sucks and I feel bad for those who just want to make their life better by moving up to the US but the fact is there is a legal way to go about it and they can do this they choose not to they choose to come across the border illegally illegally illegally illegally you know if I do something illegally I'm likely to go to jail and I agree with anybody that's doing something illegally should go to jail if I go to jail I'm likely to lose my rights to have my kids because in the eye of the law I'm incapable of taking care of my kids you know due to me being incarcerated and all I truly can't understand how anyone can expect any Nation to just have open borders and let anybody cross that to me is insane and a serious Gap in our security and yeah they can say they can put cameras up so they can watch everybody cross the border that would do a lot of good right unless maybe they're suggesting they're going to have taser drones flying around so that way they can literally stop people I don't think they're invisible wall will work it hasn't yet they've been trying for how long they say they claim their invisible wall is working right I don't understand how if it's working we're getting millions and millions of immigrants every year just crossing the border like it ain't there.. now like it ain't happened already we're going to have all kinds of Iranian militants and aggressors whatever you want to call him coming across the border to do what to pay Trump back for taking care of business Trump wasn't going to let Benghazi happen all over again in Iraq

[The Lamb]

Hey Whit, im sorry to say, but you cant fight history... look it up

"The GOP (republicans) was founded in 1854 by opponents of the Kansas–Nebraska Act, which allowed for the potential expansion of slavery into certain U.S. territories. The party supported classical liberalism, opposed the expansion of slavery, and supported economic reform. Abraham Lincoln was the first Republican president."

First thing that pops up when you research who started the republican party and why. So yes my friend, it means that only dems owned slaves and the republicans were started to stop it

MIC DROP........

But you are right, too many ideologies got intertwined with politics. Most minority voters were republican till the great depression, when FDR offered the New Deal and faced with voting Dems and getting free stuff or riding out the recession, you cant blame them for switching parties... not too much later the republicans were forced to lock eyes with the evangelicals which kind brought religion into the mess.

But to your original point, as a social liberal and fiscal conservative, no, trump is not a racist, its just propaganda for group of people who have nothing else to hold against him.

[Whitcomb The Feared]

I don't fight history, i only tell you that you are making strong hypothesis. The republican-democrat party was an unified party. Then abolitionists left to create the republican party. And those were just abolitionists ! Even jefferson was an abolitionist but at the same time a slaveholder and a member of the republican-democratic party. Who remained in the republican-democratic party was mot necessarily "the bad", while people who left to join republicans were "the good". They just wanted abolitionism, nothing else separated the two parties. And nowadays the republicans are more socislly conservatives than the founders of their own party. Tjey are not respecting the initial conception

About trump. Trump is maybe not racist, but he is strongly anti-foreigners with his america first which he is not improving. He is mostly incoherent. Ameruca first but he wants to trade (usually usa imports a lot), he wants to spend more in military (he needs taxes) but at the same time he promises to lower taxes to poor people but not increasing on rich (who pays for publi expenditures ?).
So democrats have just started a legal way to block him. To me it was a right move.

[Meliva]

Honestly I see nothing wrong with his America first statements. In my opinion it is the duty of a leader to prioritize the happiness, success, and well being of their own people first and foremost. All other nations are secondary to that. The queen or king of England should prioritize their citizens first over Americans, just like any American president should do the same for theirs over English. Yet so many people seemed so upset when trump started saying America first. Utter nonsense. Now I do think that once ones own people are taken care of, then yes, helping out those less fortunate is a kind thing to do, but it still shouldn't be considered mandatory by any means, and one should choose carefully who you do and do not help.

As for being anti-foreigner, to me he's not anti-foreigner he's anti-illegal immigrants. If they come legally I doubt he cares, it's when they sneak in that it's a problem.

Also, how is trade and America first contradictory? Trade is usually beneficial for both parties, and trump is being quite aggressive in trying to improve trade deals to better benefit America. Spending more on military while lowering taxes are also things that are not opposite each other. Their are ways to increase revenue without taxes-better trade deals for example.

All that being said, I think Trump isn't doing too bad a job. I think he does need to watch his mouth a bit more, as he does often say(or tweet more often then not) things that really don't help his image, but he's far from being the evil dictator many would have you think.

[Mack]

America is most definitely improving unemployment employers trade policies trade volume trade income the army has new boots like they are supposed to unlike the past decade or longer less on welfare im sure theres more to say but at this time im tired

[The Lamb]

Whit what is this Repub-dem party? The two main parties before the republicans were created was the Whigs and the Dems. Not sure where you were going with that.

Mel is right, a governments first priority should always be to its own citizens first, that doesn't make him anti foreigner, it makes him pro US. America is the most giving country the world has ever known, whats wrong with some introspection for a change? Whats wrong with him wanting others to obey our laws and come here legally? Whats wrong with asking some of these nations that have taken billions from the US to toss a little trade love out way?

This isnt the United Tits of America... Maybe its time for some of these baby birds to stop nursing and fly on their own a little

[Meliva]

Whit what is this Repub-dem party? The two main parties before the republicans were created was the Whigs and the Dems. Not sure where you were going with that.

Mel is right, a governments first priority should always be to its own citizens first, that doesn't make him anti foreigner, it makes him pro US. America is the most giving country the world has ever known, whats wrong with some introspection for a change? Whats wrong with him wanting others to obey our laws and come here legally? Whats wrong with asking some of these nations that have taken billions from the US to toss a little trade love out way?

This isnt the United Tits of America... Maybe its time for some of these baby birds to stop nursing and fly on their own a little

The republican-democrats were one of the first 2 political parties, before the whigs even. They were mostly formed by Jefferson and his like-minded friends in opposition to Alexander Hamilton and John Adams Federalist Party. Washington didn't like the ideas of political parties, fearing they would divide the nation(boy was he right) and is thus the only president who was never part of any party.

The Whigs were initially formed in opposition to Andrew Jackson, if I remember correctly.

The democratic-republicans eventually split into the democrats and republican parties. While other parties like the Federalist, Whigs and others just faded away over time.

[Dmanwuzhere]

we have over 11 million illegal immigrants so for those in other countries saying to deny them is racist you are more than welcome to get you a yuuuuuuuge ship and start giving them homes and invite everyone you know to do the same fill your country up be humanitarians

if you dont do it then youre racist lol


as for the impeachment believe what you will but if she never passes the documents to the senate he will never be impeached and the history books will reflect that

as for the remark that said the senate will not impeach due to the republican majority i just laugh if you had watched the trial and counted all the opinion witnesses vs the 1 fact witness (that actually exonerated trump) seen the manner in which the trial was one sided with the rules you would if you were not seeing with your feelings see that it will be so easily beat by trump its why he isnt concerned about it and is going on with business as usual

attacking trump with accusations of racism and the typical garbage only garners him more support
if you want to attack his policies instead of spewing media relayed garbage you might actually get somewhere in a debate
i think overall trump is doing well but he has several policies i didnt support but a president can not make everyone happy with every bit of legislation introduced

but the statistics certainly speak volumes and are taken more seriously than the biased media witch hunt
i suggest cutting your tv off and start digging into real research look at the facts and then decide what you like or dont like from a political standpoint otherwise i just see a parrot mimicking everything they hear regardless of it having no substance

[Whitcomb The Feared]

@Dmanzuwhere
Lol switzerland has 25% of its population as foreigners, so 2 million on 8 million total people. Don't cry for 11 million illegal foreigners on 300 mio US citizens
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/migration- ... d/42412156
Just integrate them ! And don't forget that America is a nation of migrants ! all you see around you has been built by migrants.

American trade has not been improved in the last 3 years
https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/Pr ... e/exh1.pdf

Unemployement rate is decreasing since 2010, so no thanks to Trump
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-sta ... yment-rate

Rate of inflation still quite high (normal) at 1.5 to 2.5%, problem: GDP increase at same rate. So real wealth is not increasing at all.
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-sta ... lation-cpi ;https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp

The wall has not been built, he is almost starting a war by killing an iranian general who was killig ISIS (so USA defend ISIS now ? lol). And Trump is doing nothing for USA, just worsening trade situation with a trade war against China (china doesn't care lol, they have 1 billion customers on their territory). So what is Trump doing ?

And yeah he looks racist, meaning that he wants to prefer Americans to foreigners, forgetting that USA is a land of migrants (and many times illegal migrants). So again, what is he doing ?


@Draque
The Republicna-Democrat party was the one of the first american parties. Then they split to create the republican party, facing the Republican-Demoicrat party (which eventually changed name in Democratic party). But it doesn't mean that Democrats were anti abolitionists. Overall jefferson remained in the republican-democratic party, he was a slaveholder but abolitionist. So ...


@Meliva
US preference is totally uncoherent ! What does it mean ? USA are focused a lot on imports and also on exports. You can't keep borders open to trade but closing to people, it is not coherent. Total trade in USA has a value of 5000 billion $, it means 20% of the total GDP. You close your borders to mexico and other nations belonging to your trade agreement as the NAFTA (with mexico and Canada) and you will lose billion of dollars just because of foreign migrants. And this preference is also not seen in data. There is no significant increase in wages, they still increase since 2010 so it means that this growth existed before trump already. So even on technical ground, trump is not really improving USA. he talks a lot but ... on the field there is no imrpovement.