Community Discussion: Toxic Behavior & Game Play

[Kangaroo]

Regardless of the caster or intent my view is that voodoo plays too big a role in this game.

What should be an augmentation becomes the main game, to the detriment of most.

Pirates Glory should be foremost about ship play, whether that be as traders, pirates, plantation owners or any other player role, but it hasn't been that way for quite some time.

There are game play styles that iritate or infuriate, but most are legitimate, and that's part of the problem.

If a change is required in game style, make it a change that returns the focus to ships.

The Flagship (in any incarnation) is well overdue, it's introduction should be accompanied by a review of the current cards.

It's not probably a popular view but my firm opinion is that that the only genuine griefers are those who rely on voodoo alone and place no skin in the game to enable retribution.

I''ve had over 500 cards cast on me in a 24 hour period more than once, but didn't feel victimised, rather targeted.

I've had both disagreements and agreements with proponents of both sides of the current debate.
Acting with honour wins out most times, even if the win is only pyrrhic.

Remove or place usage restrictions on cheap voodoo cards that enable griefing, it shouldn't be that hard..

[Caladan]

For me it becomes toxic when a player are driven out of the game because he/she is constantly lit up/cast upon.
When i light up someone, i half expect to be cast back at, no problem. But some don't tolerate that, "how dare those traders cast back at me for raiding them!!" Then they start casting, day in day out, never giving them a chance to recover. so they quit the game....
The bully can bang his chest and brag to his friends, but the game suffers for it!

[Dmanwuzhere]

let me relate a story that happened recently

checking the demographics gave me a target so i got me a bit of cash
converted it to credits and went about my day

not long after my fleets began taking hits from the guy i robbed
i used the danger removal to get a little more cash
but it continued in a frantic and angry manner port to port

so i messaged the guy and said if this continues we are going to end up spending more turns and voodoo
which means you lose even more

he says i know so what do we do?

at this point i explained how i knew he had money on hand and while he is a much older number than me he didnt know to check demographics
so i told him how to check and what he had to have on hand to show up on demographics
and i suggested on payouts to apply a mindbar or speak with his king to get his payments split so that he never showed

we talked a bit and exchanged some knowledge back and forth
and after a bit he offered me a discount on a product he sales for extra cash (if i bought enough lol)
i explained why i didnt need it and we parted ways in a civil manner

now he had been wronged right? i robbed him
but he left himself open to it and i capitalized on it which most everyone would agree is the right action to take
but we exchanged conversation ideas and amiable attitudes with each other

neither was better than the other we met and discussed an issue and it was resolved betwixt equals
i benefited the most and as we parted ways and ended our conversation it felt wrong
so i cast bribe until he got a captain an admiral and a merchant
which then put me as the one who lost the most
but to me it was a fair exchange i never use bribes but as a trader it was a great gesture
and i was satisfied

he thanked me and that was that

so why the story?

i just want to point out if you think your time here puts you as an expert that means you think others with less time cant have a grasp of the game
and if you think others that dont play your style are less skilled classless tasteless and mediocre players you also are looking down on others

joining an established nation trading and hitting a few fleets now and again makes those who dont classless less skilled etc? lol ok

no discussion intended to resolve an issue will work if you are on a high horse talking down to others
so i will pass this one by and see ya in another topic where i will do the same
for those of you who put forth an effort to give an honest view without needing a horse to sit on i thank you

[Magnus the red]

Then I appreciate your willingness to work with that player +1

[Most Lee Harmless]

I have never claimed those with less time in the game are lesser players. Comprehension skills lacking again.

I did say my time and experience in this game has given me an insight into it. That is not the same claim.

I see dead strawmen.

[Sir Henry Morgan]

It matters not a bilge rat's patootie if ye have 10 years experience or one day experience in Avonmora -there's way too much in this game to be an expert at each and every aspect in the game, so we need to hear from all.
This be about toxic play, if, when and how it exists and how to combat it.

All said, I do appreciate the civility that has been shown thus far, and we do see some ideas on the table. However civil, the little pot shots at each other does nothing to push this discussion forward, but discourages others from taking part and offering a perspective. It is like watching an old married couple bicker - it's funny for a moment, but gets old as it buried the topic, and people walk away. We love you all, but do stow it...TMI.

Now, onto the true question here - toxic play.

All perspectives I've seen have merit - toxic play is in the eye of the beholder - a 30 day player is going to see it differently than a 12 month player, a trader different than a pirate, etc.

We definitely have heard from a great number of VUDU members, and a couple other veteran players, but little from others - there be 50+ people that show in the draft, and they didn't get there for no reason. I believe their perspectives would help as well.

Personally, Iwould truly dislike the idea of an administrative solution, such as banning, etc. There are ample people about to work with new players, and a few tweaks that may enhance the ability for a player base to address it effectively.

A quick enhancement to bounties may help; say a law similar to loan insurance that will match a bounty posted, doubling it's value to a limit., Perhaps a technology that will boost bounties posted similar to skirmish rewards (game generated gold coin). Bounties will work if the profit opportunity matches the retaliation risk by the bounty Hunter.

Bottom line - there needs to be a way to deal with it in game. As One Eye says, an individual is not as powerful as an organized gang. Pulling nations into the play may help.

I totally agree that a move to bring naval features up into greater importance than voodoo is a major step....but that is another topic for another day.

While I have seen what I consider bullying and grieving, while others may not, one key was touched on by Kangaroo (I believe). It has to do with the mindset. He saw it as being targeted, not abused, etc. He was engaged and knew his adversary. We need to get the mindset right not only for ourself, but for new players and for our adversaries. (I do so by never using the term enemy - I use adversary. The adversary may turn to an ally some day.)

Trading guilds are a tough gig - to do so right takes massive time and energy. I have stepped away from it a bit to ponder a better means to help a new bloke find their way here....if I figure it out I'll let ya know....

One thing is for certain - better moderation of forums will go along way to helping this situation. I intend to step up, after standing aside much to long to try and help there. With the army of moderators now at hand, it should be a bit less of a drudgery.

Well I've said more than I should, but I hope enough to entice others to chime in. I'll now take a seat, refill my glass, and shut up for a while.

[Gregor Egerton]

I loved reading through all the different perspectives on this issue, and though I wouldn't consider myself a Vet, I think I've played this game for long enough to have my own opinion on it. I loved the story that Dman described above, and told by another person, I at several points was the target of such an attack. Of course it was awhile ago by now, and coming from a nation which doesn't even hold a port now, but I was the "victim" of that kind of attack. The people perpetrating it were sometimes as kind as Dman, to explain my mistake, but many others were not. And eventually I just found a way to adapt, and schedule my nation payouts to be on a time when I would definitely be on.

Although now I am a simple pirate, at a point in time I was the big lethargic trader who was semi-constantly under attack, and the game made me quite frustrated. I probably wasn't as smart as I could have been, and I certainly picked fights that I had no place fighting. I got mad at players who attacked me, and I tried to hit them back without any real hope of getting what I lost back. I quite the game twice out of a mixture of boredom and frustration, because it seemed that the game was filled with either inactivity or rage at some player for attacking me. It wasn't until I came back to the game this most recent time that I realized my error. I was the one behaving in a manner that could be described as Toxic. I was the one acting inappropriately.

I was a trader who did little to protect my fleets, and I got mad when someone attacked me. I had to look at it from the other side, the one who was doing the raiding, to see that being hit is just a natural part of the game. The people attacking me weren't doing so out of hate or spite, they were doing it in the pursuit of profit in a game called Pirates Glory. Not to say that Toxic behavior doesn't exist, it most certainly does; I just think we need to be intentional with how we describe it.

I don't think a player who is a medium-large trader and does little to protect themselves has any justification to get mad when they get hit. I do however think that raiders should use a personal code of conduct to avoid hitting players that are too small, and new to the game. My personal rule as a pirate is that I don't want to ever light up a player (unless I know they are experienced and are at this size to mitigate danger) that has under 200 ships. Some may say this is unfair and abstract, but I would remind them that I was a trader once, and I know just how profitable a trader can be with 40 fleets, I am ultimately taking very little. I would never suggest this be everyone's rule, but it is mine. I would say that every pirate, or privateer, or witch doctor, or whatever should have their own moral compass to guide them from exploiting another player.

Real Toxicity is a fairly rare thing in a game this intimate to my knowledge, but I could always be wrong. Of course abusive language and that sort of thing is bad, but I don't think that even needs to be said.

I'll end with this: don't be evil

[Meliva]

Honestly what I think a lot of folk need to keep in mind is that you can fight someone and remain civil and polite, and that just because you're fighting doesn't mean you can't have fun doing it. Back when Kitts was fighting the US I won't lie, I was upset about what the US did-I felt like they were being underhanded and unfair at first, but then I reminded myself it's just a game, I wasn't losing anything IRL and I should just try to have fun with it.

And aside from a sore rear from the arse kicking that followed and losing a bunch of resources, I did have fun. I had some fun in the fighting and a lot more in the banter. And once it was over, I feel like both sides gained some respect with each other. I certainly had a negative opinion at first of Pro, but after calmly talking to him adult to adult, I can say that changed by the time the fighting ended.

Obviously not everyone will get along with each other- some folks just rub each other the wrong way. But being Civil and Polite goes a long way in having a good relationship with most folks, which in turn goes a long way to a good game and community.

[William one eye]

Honestly what I think a lot of folk need to keep in mind is that you can fight someone and remain civil and polite, and that just because you're fighting doesn't mean you can't have fun doing it. Back when Kitts was fighting the US I won't lie, I was upset about what the US did-I felt like they were being underhanded and unfair at first, but then I reminded myself it's just a game, I wasn't losing anything IRL and I should just try to have fun with it.

.....

Obviously not everyone will get along with each other- some folks just rub each other the wrong way. But being Civil and Polite goes a long way in having a good relationship with most folks, which in turn goes a long way to a good game and community.

+1

[The Lamb]

I certainly had a negative opinion at first of Pro, but after calmly talking to him adult to adult, I can say that changed by the time the fighting ended.

Obviously not everyone will get along with each other- some folks just rub each other the wrong way. But being Civil and Polite goes a long way in having a good relationship with most folks, which in turn goes a long way to a good game and community.

+1

Your opinion of pro is what my initial opinion of dman was, but we have had many great talks and I learned he is actually good guy off the field.
Its funny that him and clock had the biggest impact on my learning early in the game. My opinions expressed earlier in this thread was not meant to indicate I was on a horse, it was just my opinion how I thought of the mechanics.

To me joking is one thing, toxicity is another, raiding is one thing, griefing is another. To me, get pist, say angry things, but then let the smoke clear and be civil to each other, that is politicking, and makes for a great player, in my opinion.