Clock's question on Dman for CJ

[Most Lee Harmless]

Mel : my concerns are about in-forum behaviour. There seems to be a disconnect in terms of what breaches of the rules get banhammered and which dont. Clear violations of TOS get ignored : genuine questions about in-game violations of TOS get banhammered. I get that admins/moderators should not get hazed, but that is a lot easier to accept when other types of offender receive equal attention from them.
Just a few weeks ago some-one dropped a c-bomb into a post here. Nada. Someone questions the current system for reporting violations... admin-baiting... delete and ban.
Needs sorting cos its looking a bit biased then its way too easy for folk to start deciding the bias comes from the wrong (i.e in-game) reasons.

[Meliva]

Mel : my concerns are about in-forum behaviour. There seems to be a disconnect in terms of what breaches ofvrulrs get banhammered and which dont. Clear violations of TOS get ignored : genuine questions about in-game violations of TOS get banhammered. I get that admins/moderators should not get hazed, but that is a lot easy to accept when other types of offender recieve equal attention from them.
Just a few weeks ago some-one dropped a c-bomb into a post here. Nada. Someone questions the current system for reporting violations... admin-baiting... delete and ban.

Part of the issue Danik is lack of reports. The forums are big, and sometimes a ton of stuff can get reported in short order. Now I check the forums and reports daily, or try to at least, and rarely see reports. So I tend to assume that means all is fine and dandy. I do read certain forums, but even with my crazy amount of free time I can't read and moderate every post, nor should I have to. We have reports for a reason. If I see no report then I assume I have no work to do, aside from reading up on the forums I'm interested in.

I can't speak for other mods, but whenever I see a report I will do something about it. But if there's no reports the only way I can solve a problem that I don't know about is to read every post word for word, and again, I may have a fair amount of free time but not that much.

[DezNutz]

I see your point Danik.

It isn't that he questioned the system, the question was what specific actions did the admin intend to make. It's a call out on how admins are administrating. It's a cut and dry case. A warning was issued and he all but reposted the same exact post. The reposting was the 3rd warning. By the guidelines provided by CJ, it should have been a week long ban. I shortened it to 24 hours.

There was no ill intent or bias intended.

Mel : my concerns are about in-forum behaviour. There seems to be a disconnect in terms of what breaches ofvrulrs get banhammered and which dont. Clear violations of TOS get ignored : genuine questions about in-game violations of TOS get banhammered. I get that admins/moderators should not get hazed, but that is a lot easy to accept when other types of offender recieve equal attention from them.
Just a few weeks ago some-one dropped a c-bomb into a post here. Nada. Someone questions the current system for reporting violations... admin-baiting... delete and ban.

Part of the issue Danik is lack of reports. The forums are big, and sometimes a ton of stuff can get reported in short order. Now I check the forums and reports daily, or try to at least, and rarely see reports. So I tend to assume that means all is fine and dandy. I do read certain forums, but even with my crazy amount of free time I can't read and moderate every post, nor should I have to. We have reports for a reason. If I see no report then I assume I have no work to do, aside from reading up on the forums I'm interested in.

I can't speak for other mods, but whenever I see a report I will do something about it. But if there's no reports the only way I can solve a problem that I don't know about is to read every post word for word, and again, I may have a fair amount of free time but not that much.

Meliva is spot on. Not every mod/admin reads every post, nor reads them thoroughly. I also check for reported messages when I log in and they are few and far between. You can't expect mods/admins to be everywhere.

[Meliva]

and that's why it seems like those who argue with mods get hammered down unfairly while others go unpunished. It's easy for mods to see an issue right in front of them, but in a thread they don't read? They may never know. I for example don't read the Bermuda newspaper, for all I know each one of them could be filled with swears, slurs and other rule violations, and I would never know because no one reports it. But since I never see any reports from that area, I assume that it's following the rules fine, and therefore doesn't need me to read through them all looking for violations.

[Most Lee Harmless]

Theres a point. But heres another. Perhaps mods should read all the posts. Not every mod reading every one but the forum is already divided into sub-forums so divide the mods attentions the same way.

Not everyone reports every instance of abuse. We know that from real life. Equally, when previous reports or call-outs fall on deaf ears, why bother repeating the folly?

In the meantime the offenders get to assume its all okay then when they are pulled up its all jnjured innocence and 'why are you snowflakes picking on me now?'.. routine.

Slippery slopes, thin ends of wedges and all that. I'm immune to most abuse : wilful ignorance offends me more. But if its not to be a free-for-all then the mods need to get a handle on ALL breaches of TOS/netiquette. In the same way that in-game violations breed an atmosphere of 'everyone else is doing it, why not me'.. thats how forums work too.

[Meliva]

Theres a point. But heres another. Perhaps mods should read all the posts. Not every mod reading every one but the forum is already divided into sub-forums so divide the mods attentions the same way.

Not everyone reports every instance of abuse. We know that from real life. Equally, when previous reports or call-outs fall on deaf ears, why bother repeating the folly?

In the meantime the offenders get to assume its all okay then when they are pulled up its all jnjured innocence and 'why are you snowflakes picking on me now?'.. routine.

Slippery slopes, thin ends of wedges and all that. I'm immune to most abuse : wilful ignorance offends me more. But if its not to be a free-for-all then the mods need to get a handle on ALL breaches of TOS/netiquette. In the same way that in-game violations breed an atmosphere of 'everyone else is doing it, why not me'.. thats how forums work too.

I don't think it would be fair to force any mod to read posts just for the chance to find the occasional violation. That would be a huge chore, that would honestly probably scare anyone off from being a mod. I'd hate it if I had to read posts that I had no interest in just for the chance of finding the occasional violation.

It's true that not everyone reports abuse or a rule violation, but neither me, nor any of the other mods are psychics as far as I know, so we can't magically fix a problem that we are not aware of. And just like in real life, If someone broke into your house and stole your stuff, don't complain that the cops are not out there looking for the guy when you don't even bother to call them about the break in.

If a report is made, I examine it, and I do what I think is the appropriate action. There will always be some who think it's too harsh or too lenient no matter what I decide, but I can't do anything if no report is made and I don't see the problem.

[Most Lee Harmless]

Cops dont all sit in the station canteen waiting for a phone call either. Few patrols might help. Its thr difference between being reactive and pro-active. My view is forum mods do need to be pro-active rather than reactive. But thats just my view.

When folk breach rules with impunity then lots of folk will assume its not really a breach. It wont be reported. Mods have to set the tone and mark out the lines. Then you'll get reports. But if it all gets left to its own devices you wont. Its become acceptable for certain people to post offensive remarks. All that will happen is more people will think its acceptable. All that will happen is that folk who call them out will be abused for doing so.
Then those folk will disengage from the whole process.

Set the standards, enforce the standards. Thats the mods prime function. But when you are more likely to get a ban for asking why rule breaches arent investigated/enforced than for actually clearly breaching those rules.... something is wrong.

[Dmanwuzhere]

players who dont report and then complain only have themselves to blame

[Lachlan]

i do

I also play torn

[Meliva]

I do go and read posts, not all of them mind you, just the ones that interest me, and if I see someone breaking the rules I will act on it. But Again, I'm not going to dedicate a huge chunk of time going through each topic, reading each post whether it's something I enjoy reading or not just for the occasional post I then have to moderate.

Going to your example, not every street is patrolled by a cop all the time. There's not enough cops to do that for most if not all cities. That's why many are on standby ready to react to a call that comes in about a crime. Sure sometimes they stumble on one without a call, but the majority are reported.

Besides Mods have lives outside this game-aside from me anyway. We also don't get paid and most get no compensation for what is literally volunteer work. If you see someone breaking a rule and don't report it, as Dman said, you have no right to complain about nothing being done, when you yourself did nothing.

If you see a rule being broken you don't even need to put yourself at risk by calling them out publicly. Reports are discreet, and unless a mod goes blabbing about reports and other sensitive info you're report won't be shared. But if you publicly talk about how "mods don't do their job" or "mods let X player get away with everything" yet never bother to file a simple and quick report, then honestly don't be surprised when us mods are upset at you for criticizing our performance while you yourself didn't do a thing to help us do our job.

Again, we are normal people. Not Psychics. You need to report things to help us do our job.