No Cannons - Levi Assault Win?: Need Feedback

[Most Lee Harmless]

Its also a one shot weapon : once it hits that is it for the entire fleet : even if the next 4 ships have the trait it cant be used again.
I dont see what all the fuss is about. Its a factor that may affect a single-ship attacker once in a blue moon. Its not biased as either side can have and use it. As indeed either side can use any trait. The choice is in whether the owner wants that trait or another.
I doubt the target fleets owner even knew that ship.had levi assault or cared. If asked thry would have preferred extra cargo 999 times out of a thousand.
Odd things happen.. its a bad move to legislate on the basis of such chance events. Xanadhu had an attack fleet lose when a sloop with 1 HP still beat three of his ships... cos that can happen but chances it will happen again are beyond calculation.
Moral of the tale is simple : dont assume a single warship will.always beat a trade fleet..armed or not. The battle isnt just about cannon firepower.

[sXs]

Its also a one shot weapon : once it hits that is it for the entire fleet : even if the next 4 ships have the trait it cant be used again.
I dont see what all the fuss is about. Its a factor that may affect a single-ship attacker once in a blue moon. Its not biased as either side can have and use it. As indeed either side can use any trait. The choice is in whether the owner wants that trait or another.
I doubt the target fleets owner even knew that ship.had levi assault or cared. If asked thry would have preferred extra cargo 999 times out of a thousand.
Odd things happen.. its a bad move to legislate on the basis of such chance events. Xanadhu had an attack fleet lose when a sloop with 1 HP still beat three of his ships... cos that can happen but chances it will happen again are beyond calculation.
Moral of the tale is simple : dont assume a single warship will.always beat a trade fleet..armed or not. The battle isnt just about cannon firepower.

My issue is simply this. It has no requirements. Even in the rare occasion it happens, there are no requirements. This is how I look at it.

It is like saying this,

20 car line up for a race. I car puts no fuel in the tank yet it still has a chance to win the race because there is a chance the other 19 cars will actually crash before they leave the starting line pushing that one car out to the lead during the crash.

It makes no sense.

[Meliva]

Yes but those were all there before ship attributes. Nothing changed in that respect. Yet now they get benefit for no additional cost. Yes I know it is 5% That is why i think requiring a call levi for it to be triggered is not asking a lot. But I figured some would consider that too expensive even at 5%. So I compromised and suggested cannons be required on the ship with levi assault which is only about 17% of all ships. I never said every ship in the fleet needed cannons, only the ones with levi assault or fire assault. so maybe 34% of all ships.

Lets say you have a1000 ships trading for ease of math all LMM
340 would require cannons
340x20x140=952,000 total gc investment
and a daily upkeep cost of 6400.

is that really asking alot of someone with 1000 trade ships? granted numbers are inflated

6800 in daily upkeep is a "fart in the wind" as my grandpa used to say. In other words it is insignificant.

Why is this such a big ask?

The question is why is it needed? This isn't a merchant exclusive trait, pirates can get it too. Cannons have no impact on this trait, nor should they. It's calling a leviathan not using any sort of weapon.

Well then since it is calling a leviathan, exactly how was that done in game mechanics before ship traits? It was done with a voodoo card. Since this is your driving point, then having the card would be your answer. After all that is how it is done. No? Too expensive? Well then in lieu of that i C O M P R O M I S E D. and suggested cannons be required.

There was NOTHING to compromise for! There is NO reason to require ANYTHING for any trait to work aside from what is needed. You keep on hammering on and on about how cannons should be required for leviathan assault, when they have nothing to do with the damn thing, and no, it has nothing to do with the call leviathan voodoo card either. Those are 2 different bloody things too. One instantly sinks the enemy ship in battle, the other lowers the level down by 1 outside of it.

Your point about how unarmed ships shouldn't beat a war fleet is completely pointless. The chances of this happening are incredibly slim unless the pirate himself is cheap and tries plundering with a single ship. Even then, the chances are slim.

[Meliva]

Its also a one shot weapon : once it hits that is it for the entire fleet : even if the next 4 ships have the trait it cant be used again.
I dont see what all the fuss is about. Its a factor that may affect a single-ship attacker once in a blue moon. Its not biased as either side can have and use it. As indeed either side can use any trait. The choice is in whether the owner wants that trait or another.
I doubt the target fleets owner even knew that ship.had levi assault or cared. If asked thry would have preferred extra cargo 999 times out of a thousand.
Odd things happen.. its a bad move to legislate on the basis of such chance events. Xanadhu had an attack fleet lose when a sloop with 1 HP still beat three of his ships... cos that can happen but chances it will happen again are beyond calculation.
Moral of the tale is simple : dont assume a single warship will.always beat a trade fleet..armed or not. The battle isnt just about cannon firepower.

My issue is simply this. It has no requirements. Even in the rare occasion it happens, there are no requirements. This is how I look at it.

It is like saying this,

20 car line up for a race. I car puts no fuel in the tank yet it still has a chance to win the race because there is a chance the other 19 cars will actually crash before they leave the starting line pushing that one car out to the lead during the crash.

It makes no sense.

It does have a requirement-your ship needs to have the trait to use it. And thus not have any other(double trait excluded). Most merchants, especially those who do not arm their fleets would not want this trait in the first place.

And why does it need some requirement? Loyal crew doesn't need something specific to activate. Nor do extra cannons-shouldn't that require less cargo space to make room? Or less cannons if you have extra cargo space?

The traits are fine as is. Why complicate them by adding requirements that make no sense?

[sXs]

I think ship traits are one of the worst upgrades to come out in this game since I started playing. They make no sense at all the way they were done.

If it had been done as part of a shipwright upgrade where a shipbuilder could build specialty ships then great, they would amke sense because there would be requirements associated with them.

I seemed to me someone was bored and said "let's do this" and called it good without much thought being put into it. It was thinking on a small scale instead of actually developing something that made sense from start to finish. It seems the thinking was Let's just give everyone something for nothing, let's make it completely random, and let's not require them to do anything for it.

There is no vision involved in development anymore. We have been relegated to short cuts and baselines instead of having an end goal in mind.

[sXs]

Its also a one shot weapon : once it hits that is it for the entire fleet : even if the next 4 ships have the trait it cant be used again.
I dont see what all the fuss is about. Its a factor that may affect a single-ship attacker once in a blue moon. Its not biased as either side can have and use it. As indeed either side can use any trait. The choice is in whether the owner wants that trait or another.
I doubt the target fleets owner even knew that ship.had levi assault or cared. If asked thry would have preferred extra cargo 999 times out of a thousand.
Odd things happen.. its a bad move to legislate on the basis of such chance events. Xanadhu had an attack fleet lose when a sloop with 1 HP still beat three of his ships... cos that can happen but chances it will happen again are beyond calculation.
Moral of the tale is simple : dont assume a single warship will.always beat a trade fleet..armed or not. The battle isnt just about cannon firepower.

My issue is simply this. It has no requirements. Even in the rare occasion it happens, there are no requirements. This is how I look at it.

It is like saying this,

20 car line up for a race. I car puts no fuel in the tank yet it still has a chance to win the race because there is a chance the other 19 cars will actually crash before they leave the starting line pushing that one car out to the lead during the crash.

It makes no sense.

It does have a requirement-your ship needs to have the trait to use it. And thus not have any other(double trait excluded). Most merchants, especially those who do not arm their fleets would not want this trait in the first place.

And why does it need some requirement? Loyal crew doesn't need something specific to activate. Nor do extra cannons-shouldn't that require less cargo space to make room? Or less cannons if you have extra cargo space?

The traits are fine as is. Why complicate them by adding requirements that make no sense?

Loyal crew does have a requirement to initiate. So do extra cannons.

In order to use the extra guns you need to buy the cannons.

in order to activate loyal crew you need to either commandeer the ship back, wreck hunt the ship or attack the fleet it was placed in in the first 72 hours.

Extra cargo space requires you buy cargo.

[Dejanira]

Plenty of examples of ships reduced to matchwood still winning a one on one battle... most famously John Paul Jones.

Piratesque Led Zeppelin!



P.S. As far as I see it, it's not the ship that wins but a Leviathan that sinks the attacker. So I'm for a no cannons-related trait. There's a trigger already: to survive till the third turn.

[Kangaroo]

So earlier today, I was hammering away on a Merchants Armada. This sailor has several hundred trade ships and has elected to not equip them with any guns (assuming to avoid the daily upkeep cost).

Seeing this, I took my trusty Sloop of War up against these ships for quick cash grab. The treasury was sinking nicely and getting close to plunder some ships, when all of a sudden, I LOST A BATTLE. I lost a battle to a NO CANNON EQUIPPED LMM. This said LMM however had the new ship trait Leviathan Assualt. On the 3rd round it called the beast and my ship was sunk and the battle lost.




I am torn on this and would like the communities feedback. Should a ship with no cannons equipped, be able to win a battle simply due to a ship trait? Should a ship with the Leviathan Assault ability need cannons to be active?

I am good either way, I was simply surprised by this outcome.
Oh and it happened twice in a row! Lucky 5% hit (twice)! SMH....

I personally love the random element in play here, esp as it isn't voodoo but a ship based outcome..

[Shadowood]

Great discussion guys

[Sebena]

From what I gathered in these few minutes I had to spare I must say this is one of the most amazing things that happened in the game. I honestly love it and would love it if that happend to me aswell. I am all for this to happen if ship lasted three rounds to be able triggering that trait. It forces people to take in traits as very important game mechanic