Hostile Waters should not apply to skirmish attacks

[sXs]

Personally think it should add that skirmishes add 3 more danger instead of 6 because skirmish is half the turns

Yes half the turns so already a benefit to use skirmish. Cutting danger in half would make it too much.

This brings up another point though.....

From Skirmish Help page.....

"1)You need 1 Skirmish point
Right now, you get 3 Skirmish points per day.
Black Flag (Pirate Flag) players earn an extra 5 Skirmish points per day
Skirmish Tactics Technology gives 1 Skirmish point per day per level.
Maximum skirmish points allowed at hand are 72.
Skirmish Tactics technology increases storage by 5 per level.
Skirmish points are only added to recently active players.


Now I just looked at my Total.....

You have not found any NPC fleets.

Click here to see Skirmish Details You have 137 unspent skirmish points.

Great, show me targets in Tortuga!

Either the "Help page" for skirmishes is wrong or there is a bug.

Well what's your skirmish tech level? Seems right to me if you have it at a certain level or higher. At level 13 the total would equal 137. 72+65=137. As each level adds 5. Is the bug that you don't have it at a high enough level, or what?

Then it needs to be rewritten. Maximum skirmish points on hand would be 172 not 72

[sXs]

Also...... I just ran an experiment........

a) All defending fleet's Cargo is lost
-Gold Bars are transfered to the attacking fleet's port warehouse. If the attacker has no warehouse there the gold bars are lost. If the space is insufficient, then the excessive gold bars are lost.
-Wood,Iron,Tools,Cotton,Rum,Tobacco and Food, are transformed in gold coins (base prices are assumed) and attacker receives them. This is called the Cargo Value. (Gold Bars are NOT counted for the Cargo Value)

b)A gold loot is applied, equal to the Cargo Value
This gold loot is removed from defender's treasury. If defender's treasury is less than the gold loot, then he pays as much as his treasury has minus 1. This means that Skirmishes can return 0 earnings.

I skirmished a trade fleet

4LMM 1 Hawker

-> You plundered gc21,600 gold coins!

-> You earned an extra gc70,000 thanks to Piracy!

Your fame increased by fp10,800!

Plunder total is impossible because cargo value is based on base prices. 21,600 gc / 540 =40 gc per ...... no goods have a base price of 40.

Another bug? or am I missing something?

GBs and probably not a full inventory, but that's just speculation.

Gold Bars are not Couted towards cargo value. You get the bars stored in your warehouse so that is not it.

[Dmanwuzhere]

i skirmish quite a bit in fact it is currently how i generate my income unless there are juicier targets on the board who have enough cash out to tempt me to use the additional 2 turns or i just want to hit the player

recently me and another player spent a few weeks exchanging hw and disfavor daily and they are effective at shutting a player down unless you are using ships you do not care to lose.

I have seen several players use smaller ships with the intent of losing them due to the sink rate and it works but that is about the only counter to this duo of curses effects.

i have worn my fair share of them and as much as i hate them they do bring balance and offer a way for a team mate to basically introduce a chains of justice for you in your absence.

as a punishment you do in fact earn them from irritating someone for example silvershadow skirmishes quite a bit and he normally does so in a balanced way but on occasion i have seen him hit quite a few of my guild and he earns a cast from me yet he balances his attacks normally in such a way he rarely sees me cast at him anymore but when i do he normally ends his attacks until the voodoo has expired

seeing it from the standpoint of caster,receiver and skirmisher i just have to disagree and say -1 for me as i believe the danger system is well thought out and i believe it works as it should with or without voodoo

[DezNutz]

Also...... I just ran an experiment........

a) All defending fleet's Cargo is lost
-Gold Bars are transfered to the attacking fleet's port warehouse. If the attacker has no warehouse there the gold bars are lost. If the space is insufficient, then the excessive gold bars are lost.
-Wood,Iron,Tools,Cotton,Rum,Tobacco and Food, are transformed in gold coins (base prices are assumed) and attacker receives them. This is called the Cargo Value. (Gold Bars are NOT counted for the Cargo Value)

b)A gold loot is applied, equal to the Cargo Value
This gold loot is removed from defender's treasury. If defender's treasury is less than the gold loot, then he pays as much as his treasury has minus 1. This means that Skirmishes can return 0 earnings.

I skirmished a trade fleet

4LMM 1 Hawker

-> You plundered gc21,600 gold coins!

-> You earned an extra gc70,000 thanks to Piracy!

Your fame increased by fp10,800!

Plunder total is impossible because cargo value is based on base prices. 21,600 gc / 540 =40 gc per ...... no goods have a base price of 40.

Another bug? or am I missing something?

GBs and probably not a full inventory, but that's just speculation.

Yeah, I realized that afterward.

Still not a bug.

The attacker receives a) Cargo Value or GBs if they have them + b) Gold Loot

[DezNutz]

Then it needs to be rewritten. Maximum skirmish points on hand would be 172 not 72

Why, by default, you have a maximum of 72 skirmish points. Only if you develop the appropriate tech does that maximum increase.

[Meliva]

Also...... I just ran an experiment........

a) All defending fleet's Cargo is lost
-Gold Bars are transfered to the attacking fleet's port warehouse. If the attacker has no warehouse there the gold bars are lost. If the space is insufficient, then the excessive gold bars are lost.
-Wood,Iron,Tools,Cotton,Rum,Tobacco and Food, are transformed in gold coins (base prices are assumed) and attacker receives them. This is called the Cargo Value. (Gold Bars are NOT counted for the Cargo Value)

b)A gold loot is applied, equal to the Cargo Value
This gold loot is removed from defender's treasury. If defender's treasury is less than the gold loot, then he pays as much as his treasury has minus 1. This means that Skirmishes can return 0 earnings.

I skirmished a trade fleet

4LMM 1 Hawker

-> You plundered gc21,600 gold coins!

-> You earned an extra gc70,000 thanks to Piracy!

Your fame increased by fp10,800!

Plunder total is impossible because cargo value is based on base prices. 21,600 gc / 540 =40 gc per ...... no goods have a base price of 40.

Another bug? or am I missing something?

GBs and probably not a full inventory, but that's just speculation.

Gold Bars are not Couted towards cargo value. You get the bars stored in your warehouse so that is not it.

It also takes some gold from their treasury on top of the cargo value- says as so under B) So it isn't just purely from their cargo. I do think that it needs to be rewritten as I think it wasn't updated even after techs were added, hence the confusion when you compare these rules while you have tech that somewhat alters them.

[Dmanwuzhere]

Then it needs to be rewritten. Maximum skirmish points on hand would be 172 not 72

Why, by default, you have a maximum of 72 skirmish points. Only if you develop the appropriate tech does that maximum increase.

recently the tech removed the cap that ended your skirmish tech at level 20 if it were rewritten you would need to know where it currently caps out mine is in its mid 20s but i dont know if it ends at level 30 or if it was made infinite lol

[sXs]

Help section definitely needs to be rewritten so it is more clear.

[Redish]

Having read these post above it's probably necessary to clarify a few things from the original post. (trying hard to ignore the derailment)

Initially the turn cost for skirmishes was 3 but that was reduced to 2 to increase the level of activity. Perhaps the increased accumulation in danger points was not taken into account when this was implemented.

The main reason why I suggest that the effect of HW cards on Skirmishes should be ignored is because the damage to any specific defending player is limited. The gain for the attacker comes from the 70k tech bonus which is system generated. When a player is attacked in a normal PvP raid there is actual damaged caused. The player suffers losses in terms of lost levels as well as gold on hand and possibly even ships not to mention the lost revenue due to paused fleets. This can't happen with skirmishes so for that reason alone I feel that accumulating additional danger under an HW card is excessive.

Yes, there is an irritation value if a player is skirmished on a daily basis but the damage is still limited unless you happen to hit his/her gold fleet. In that case there are other ways to get at an attacking player. I also don't see why a guild would take offense to the skirmishing of its members as was mentioned in one of the posts. Most nations have insurance so the losses are covered. If anything this would be a nation issue. There is no impact on the guild.


This is by no means a moaning session as it was suggested in one of the earlier posts. Just simply something that I noticed during the normal course of play that seemed out of place which might need some reconsideration.

[Meliva]

Having read these post above it's probably necessary to clarify a few things from the original post. (trying hard to ignore the derailment)

Initially the turn cost for skirmishes was 3 but that was reduced to 2 to increase the level of activity. Perhaps the increased accumulation in danger points was not taken into account when this was implemented.

The main reason why I suggest that the effect of HW cards on Skirmishes should be ignored is because the damage to any specific defending player is limited. The gain for the attacker comes from the 70k tech bonus which is system generated. When a player is attacked in a normal PvP raid there is actual damaged caused. The player suffers losses in terms of lost levels as well as gold on hand and possibly even ships not to mention the lost revenue due to paused fleets. This can't happen with skirmishes so for that reason alone I feel that accumulating additional danger under an HW card is excessive.

Yes, there is an irritation value if a player is skirmished on a daily basis but the damage is still limited unless you happen to hit his/her gold fleet. In that case there are other ways to get at an attacking player. I also don't see why a guild would take offense to the skirmishing of its members as was mentioned in one of the posts. Most nations have insurance so the losses are covered. If anything this would be a nation issue. There is no impact on the guild.


This is by no means a moaning session as it was suggested in one of the earlier posts. Just simply something that I noticed during the normal course of play that seemed out of place which might need some reconsideration.

Afraid your logic doesn't make much sense to me.

So your point is that because no real damage is done to the defender, that means skirmishes shouldn't be subject to HW?

Well by the logic why change how HW works? I mean all it does is add extra danger if you attack-simply don't attack no danger gain.

Yes, it is an irritation to the player skirmishing but the damage is limited unless they attack anyway.