Hostile Waters should not apply to skirmish attacks

[Redish]

On normal attacks the turn cost is 4 turns and the danger accumulation is 6. With Hostile Waters active the danger accumulation is 12.

With skirmishes the turn cost is 2 turns and the danger accumulation is still 6 per attack. This means for every 4 turns the danger accumulation is 12 and under Hostile Waters the danger accumulation is 24.

A player who skirmishes on a regular basis accrues twice as many danger points as they would under normal PvP attacks. Due to the escape chance not all of these attacks are successful but they still accrue danger points. Considering the fact that there are already so many protection rules built into the game to ensure that defending players can't be exploited in terms of skirmishes this level of danger accumulation under the Hostile Waters card goes a bit far in penalizing skirmishing players. Furthermore, many nations have skirmish insurance which means that there is little to no loss to the defending player when they are skirmished.

Hostile Waters makes sense when a player has attacked and specifically targets someone else using voodoo. With skirmishing, Hostile Waters serves no purpose as most of the income is generated through the maxed out Piracy tech which generates 70k on each successful attack and not so much from the defenders purse.

For this reason I suggest that the effect of the Hostile Waters card be ignored when skirmish attacks take place. Perhaps then we'll see slightly more PvP activity which is what we want.

[Shadowood]

On normal attacks the turn cost is 4 turns and the danger accumulation is 6. With Hostile Waters active the danger accumulation is 12.

With skirmishes the turn cost is 2 turns and the danger accumulation is still 6 per attack. This means for every 4 turns the danger accumulation is 12 and under Hostile Waters the danger accumulation is 24.

A player who skirmishes on a regular basis accrues twice as many danger points as they would under normal PvP attacks. Due to the escape chance not all of these attacks are successful but they still accrue danger points. Considering the fact that there are already so many protection rules built into the game to ensure that defending players can't be exploited in terms of skirmishes this level of danger accumulation under the Hostile Waters card goes a bit far in penalizing skirmishing players. Furthermore, many nations have skirmish insurance which means that there is little to no loss to the defending player when they are skirmished.

Hostile Waters makes sense when a player has attacked and specifically targets someone else using voodoo. With skirmishing, Hostile Waters serves no purpose as most of the income is generated through the maxed out Piracy tech which generates 70k on each successful attack and not so much from the defenders purse.

For this reason I suggest that the effect of the Hostile Waters card be ignored when skirmish attacks take place. Perhaps then we'll see slightly more PvP activity which is what we want.

+1 for me. I do not skirmish but this is a well thought out statement and makes 100% sense.

[PFH]

+1 i agree with this approve

[Most Lee Harmless]

I tend to disagree : the lower turn cost already compensates for the 75% hit rate due to evasion chance. Thats rather generous as a 25% fail rate still leaves the skirmisher ahead of the game.. turn wise.
Hostile Waters serves a purpose : its a 'punishment' card to discourage attacks by a specific player. Its not a generalised function like evasion chance. If we disregard Hostile Waters for skirmishers must we also disregard disfavor for danger accumulated via skirmishes?
4 skirmish costs 8 turns.. same as 2 normal attacks.. but the skirmisher can collect 3 plunders from that 4 hits : as pointed out the main economic drive to skirmish is the piracy tech bonus. By my maths the skirmisher effectively gets an additional 50% bonus for same turn cost. Thats enough advantage in my view. Disregarding the normal danger accumulation caused by being under Hostile Waters seems a bit unfair when ordinary hits still get it at twice turn cost of a skirmish. And its not like you wouldnt know it had been cast on you. Clean it or suffer it... same as the rest of the world has to.

Anyway.. this isnt about the pirate flagship so, apparently, is a waste of time that could be better spent moaning about that.

[sXs]

I disagree simply because the counter is the same. HW can be removed just as easily no matter what.

While I agree with the premise, the fact is skirmish is still an attack. The reason the turn cost is less is because the yield is less. The reason the danger is the same is because it is still an attack.

[PFH]

Personally think it should add that skirmishes add 3 more danger instead of 6 because skirmish is half the turns

[sXs]

Personally think it should add that skirmishes add 3 more danger instead of 6 because skirmish is half the turns

Yes half the turns so already a benefit to use skirmish. Cutting danger in half would make it too much.

This brings up another point though.....

From Skirmish Help page.....

"1)You need 1 Skirmish point
Right now, you get 3 Skirmish points per day.
Black Flag (Pirate Flag) players earn an extra 5 Skirmish points per day
Skirmish Tactics Technology gives 1 Skirmish point per day per level.
Maximum skirmish points allowed at hand are 72.
Skirmish Tactics technology increases storage by 5 per level.
Skirmish points are only added to recently active players.


Now I just looked at my Total.....

You have not found any NPC fleets.

Click here to see Skirmish Details You have 137 unspent skirmish points.

Great, show me targets in Tortuga!

Either the "Help page" for skirmishes is wrong or there is a bug.

[DezNutz]

Personally think it should add that skirmishes add 3 more danger instead of 6 because skirmish is half the turns

Yes half the turns so already a benefit to use skirmish. Cutting danger in half would make it too much.

This brings up another point though.....

From Skirmish Help page.....

"1)You need 1 Skirmish point
Right now, you get 3 Skirmish points per day.
Black Flag (Pirate Flag) players earn an extra 5 Skirmish points per day
Skirmish Tactics Technology gives 1 Skirmish point per day per level.
Maximum skirmish points allowed at hand are 72.
Skirmish Tactics technology increases storage by 5 per level.
Skirmish points are only added to recently active players.


Now I just looked at my Total.....

You have not found any NPC fleets.

Click here to see Skirmish Details You have 137 unspent skirmish points.

Great, show me targets in Tortuga!

Either the "Help page" for skirmishes is wrong or there is a bug.

It's not a bug, just poorly written. I interpreted that to mean that by default you can hold no more than 72 unless you develop tech.

[Meliva]

Personally think it should add that skirmishes add 3 more danger instead of 6 because skirmish is half the turns

Yes half the turns so already a benefit to use skirmish. Cutting danger in half would make it too much.

This brings up another point though.....

From Skirmish Help page.....

"1)You need 1 Skirmish point
Right now, you get 3 Skirmish points per day.
Black Flag (Pirate Flag) players earn an extra 5 Skirmish points per day
Skirmish Tactics Technology gives 1 Skirmish point per day per level.
Maximum skirmish points allowed at hand are 72.
Skirmish Tactics technology increases storage by 5 per level.
Skirmish points are only added to recently active players.


Now I just looked at my Total.....

You have not found any NPC fleets.

Click here to see Skirmish Details You have 137 unspent skirmish points.

Great, show me targets in Tortuga!

Either the "Help page" for skirmishes is wrong or there is a bug.

Well what's your skirmish tech level? Seems right to me if you have it at a certain level or higher. At level 13 the total would equal 137. 72+65=137. As each level adds 5. Is the bug that you don't have it at a high enough level, or what?

[sXs]

Also...... I just ran an experiment........

a) All defending fleet's Cargo is lost
-Gold Bars are transfered to the attacking fleet's port warehouse. If the attacker has no warehouse there the gold bars are lost. If the space is insufficient, then the excessive gold bars are lost.
-Wood,Iron,Tools,Cotton,Rum,Tobacco and Food, are transformed in gold coins (base prices are assumed) and attacker receives them. This is called the Cargo Value. (Gold Bars are NOT counted for the Cargo Value)

b)A gold loot is applied, equal to the Cargo Value
This gold loot is removed from defender's treasury. If defender's treasury is less than the gold loot, then he pays as much as his treasury has minus 1. This means that Skirmishes can return 0 earnings.

I skirmished a trade fleet

4LMM 1 Hawker

-> You plundered gc21,600 gold coins!

-> You earned an extra gc70,000 thanks to Piracy!

Your fame increased by fp10,800!

Plunder total is impossible because cargo value is based on base prices. 21,600 gc / 540 =40 gc per ...... no goods have a base price of 40.

Another bug? or am I missing something?