Dev Team - Flagships

[Captain Jack]

Are there any updates from the discussion to the first post? This is paramount to suggestion evolution.

Here is how you can do it:
1)Those following the discussion since start, can post their own briefing. Usually, during a discussion flow, very rarely you remain at the point you were at the first post. So it would be good to post your briefing, with your renewed position, as full as possible.

Alternatively, you can post the points you want changed from the idea currently at hand (the one at the top post).

2)The OP (at this case Skyhawk) should try to choose through what he likes from the evolved discussion and update the first post accordingly.

Finally, once the OP feels that his suggestion is complete and no need of further discussion is needed, the Dev Team can then vote on suggestion as it has been shaped from the discussion.

This procedure should be similar to ALL suggestions, no matter who has started it. This procedure has been followed at all my suggestions here, no matter if they were originally my ideas or from other players or a combination of both. This procedure you should follow to all suggestions from now on.

I have personally not followed all the posts so far, so I would be greatly interest for both briefings by those who did and also by an update of the first post to reflect at least the common points so far.

[Hawk]

I've been following the discussion, plan was to update this weekend. Sure thing Capt'in!!

[Hawk]

Reworked from the original topic
Thanks to everyone who provided constrictive feedback and suggestions in the forums and in messages!

Flagships II

Each Pirate-Flag player can create one flagship. To designate a flagship you simply pay 25 credits and choose any ship you own, up to a Large Frigate, to make it your flagship. A one-time mission for beginning pirates to designate a flagship would also be a possibility.


Rules:

⦁ You only can have one flagship at a time
⦁ Flagships cannot be sold on the ship's market
⦁ Flagships are highlighted in gold in 'ships in fleet' on the plunder board


Extra Ability

All flagships get an extra ability upon being designated. (Chosen by the player)


EXP:

Each battle, your ship gets EXP and can level up, like any simple RPG game. Each level, a point can be attributed to upgrade a bonus. The EXP needed for each level would increase. EXP is only gained while a flagship is sailing under the Pirate Flag.

EXP for Battles won by Flagship's fleet:

⦁ Versus another Flagship fleet, Win: 30XP Loss: 5XP
⦁ Versus any Player fleet - Win 10XP Loss: 1XP
⦁ Versus any NPC fleet - Win 1XP Loss: 0XP


Bonuses:

All bonuses are halved for Non-Pirates.
** Means that the ability is disabled completely.

Cannonery - Plus X% shooting accuracy

Battle Tactics - Plus X% defense bonus for your flagship

Advanced Rigging - Plus X% speed bonus to your flagship

Rum!! - Rum on board is consumed at 1 crate per hour. While there is rum stocked on your flagship, your flagship gains X% crew bonus (Double hammocks attribute boost)

Legend - Gain X% more fame after winning a battle (Given by game.)

**Dead Men Tell No Tales - X% chance to kill the crew of the last ship in the losing fleet. Your fleet gains half danger.

**Survivor - After losing a battle, X% chance for fleet to escape without paying ransom


Disabled Flagships

If you designate a new flagship, or if your flagship is stolen, it is “disabled”.

⦁ Disabled flagship bonuses and extra ability are deactivated
⦁ They cannot be sold at the ship's market
⦁ They are still highlighted in gold for "trophy status"

Everything about a disabled flagship can still be viewed, including bonuses and the original owner, and it can still function as a normal ship. Just the bonuses and extra ability are disabled.

A disabled flagship can be reactivated for 25 credits. Doing this will replace your current flagship if you have one and put it in disabled status.



Plundering a Flagship

If a flagship is plundered (stolen), after 3 days (72 hours) the new owner can choose to make the ship his/her flagship for no cost. If accepted, ship bonuses carry over to the new owner and are activated, and the owner's previous flagship is disabled if he has one.

If declined, the plundered flagship remains disabled, but it can still be used normally. The owner’s current flagship, if he/she had one, remains active.

There is an EXP penalty of 15% on a flagship every time it is plundered. To level up further the flagship must reach the level of EXP it previously was at.


Other

There is a cooldown of 72 hours for designating a flagship.

If a Flagship is sold to the shipwright a sizable gold bonus is received, multiplied by the current level of the Flagship. (Estimate 500,000gc)

End

Works Cited:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3039&hilit=flagship
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=547&hilit=flagship&start=10
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4892


Future possible tie ins:
1) Letter of Marque
2) Pirate Hunter
3) Port Control/Nation Action
a) Armada
b) Port Defense

02/16/19 Merged with original topic -Skyhawk

[Captain Jack]

Each Pirate-Flag player can create one flagship.

Original suggestion did not have this restriction.

Only for this, it is a big no for me. Creation cannot be limited to Black Flag players.

-Because this is a major, fundamental feature.
-Because it is counterproductive: You cannot create a major feature for a handful of people. Neither you should create situations which push people to change paths.
-Because Pirates do not such a big buff anyway, for a long series of reasons.
-Because it would otherwise push the rich collection of paths we currently have to the pirate path.
-Because it is historically inaccurate; Everyone has a flagship, even now.
-Because it is illogical; Why Pirates can create and the rest not?

To help the discussion evolution, let me drop some definitions here:

Code: Select all

pirate
noun
1.
a person who attacks and robs ships at sea.


Code: Select all

privateer
noun
1.
HISTORICAL
an armed ship owned and crewed by private individuals holding a government commission and authorized for use in war, especially in the capture of merchant shipping.


Code: Select all

buccaneer
noun
HISTORICAL
a pirate, originally one operating in the Caribbean.
"the marauding buccaneers who used to terrorize the Mediterranean coasts"

synonyms:   pirate, marauder, raider, sea rover, freebooter, plunderer, cut-throat, privateer, Viking, bandit, robber, desperado;
a person who acts in a recklessly adventurous and often unscrupulous way, especially in business.


Code: Select all

flagship
noun
the ship in a fleet which carries the commanding admiral.
the best or most important thing owned or produced by a particular organization.


Finally, if anyone has any particular concerns who can actually back them up, for ANY path, please open a discussion topic about it. Do not try to tie the Flagship feature as a all-in-one-solution for ANY path.


So, for me, before anything else should be discussed, this should be made clear. Flagships cannot be reserved or one sided for any particular path. I liked the original approach where Pirates had some extra buffs-> this is the way to go if you want to favor a specific path in a fundamental major feature such as Flagships.

[Mack]

i think he ment pirates / flag player

All bonuses are halved for Non-Pirates.
** Means that the ability is disabled completely.

not sure though

[Kangaroo]

i think he ment pirates / flag player

All bonuses are halved for Non-Pirates.
** Means that the ability is disabled completely.

not sure though

I read it as Pirate OR Flag

[Mack]

but i kinda like it...


**Dead Men Tell No Tales - X% chance to kill the crew of the last ship in the losing fleet. Your fleet gains half danger.

thats the only thing im unsure of..

[Captain Jack]

So, I have read it all and here is my POV (Point of View).

First, I find the initial suggestion of Hawk brilliant. To be clear, I had no role or even given ANY feedback to it.

What I found brilliant is mostly the resolution of the major obstacles we had in the previous suggestions.

Namely:
-How to control Flagship naming ? Easy: With 25 credits each time
-What to do when a Flagship is plundered? EASY! Disable all special abilities and only activate them if the player chooses it as its flagship.


THESE TWO solutions are by far the most important elements of his suggestion. However, there are more. Like the attempt to make Flagship useful for everyone outside PVP space.

If the other two were the most important obstacles, then this particular approach is THE MOST CRUCIAL FOR SUCCESS. Why? Because it addresses the unsolvable on how to keep current Escorted Trade Fleets balanced when a flagship comes.

Let me explain this:
Right now, many players use escorts at their fleets. However, in PG, you can attack to the end of turns with a single fleet. So, a very powerful ship can play a huge role here. Introducing a Flagship that can be king in PvP is going to negate this aspect of the game.

The initial solution here were traits, battle tactics, change on repairs and more to come. The approach of giving Flagship benefits outside of PvP is brilliant.

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Now that I have cleared out the brilliant parts of the idea, let me clear something out once again: WE CANNOT HAVE ANY SUPER SHIP. No design should allow a SUPER ship to be created. A super ship will unbalance the current situation by a lot, as I explained above.

If we want a SUPER ship this BAD, then we FIRST need to further enhance battles, like we did with ship traits. Still, Flagship can be implemented at its core and any such upgrade to super ship classification (during pvp) can be postponed for later, when the battle system will be able to handle it in a fair way.

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This gives me lead to the less important part of the suggestion which is also a bit problematic. It was clear to me when I read the suggestion for the first time and as I can see from the posts here that it was no different to the rest. This is the abilities part and how to earn them. However, like I said, this is the less important part.

It is indeed less important but it can be REALLY DIFFICULT to end up to the list of abilities in both names and details. So, we need to be patient and start small. Let us start with the easy ones, for which most agree. Then see what happens with those that are unpopular. While development is not a popularity contest, it can be a good idea to leave the unpopular ones last. Wisdom gained from the procedure till that point, will help the minds of everyone to have a better judgment for them at that time.

As for how to gain the abilities, I find this the less risky part. Some good ideas have already been mentioned but I think it is too early to focus here.

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Now, let me give you some things that have been mentioned and for which I have an opinion:

-About Pirates. It is always good to distinct pirates at every feature and give them a buff. This suggestion already does this by proposing 2 abilities specifically for pirates. If you do not like the proposed abilities, put your focus there. It is the abilities proposed that need to improve and not the general idea to change.

-About fame. Pirates already count like as if they have 200 ships or less. Perhaps, we can make this a wider rule to include everyone, so Privateers can also fall into this "protection". So, the fame loss formula will always assume 200 ships when the loser has less than this number.

-About selling to ships market or any other restriction on how to deal with Flagships, I reject them all 100%. I say that ,since we have Loyal Crew trait, we should not add any special rules for Flagships here. If someone wants special rules for his Flagship, he can choose one with Loyal Crew.

-The "disabled" abilities is like a must. When you capture a Flagship, his abilities remain disabled unless you choose it as your flagship. If this is not the case, then imagine what could happen; everyone would keep every flagship they plundered and the ones who lost them could create a new one. Aside from this being hard to police (easy to exploit) there is another more obvious danger; All ships will be gradually replaced by Flagships.

-Finally, regarding the Display in Gold, I find this as a cool idea. If some do not like it, I cannot disagree with them basically because it does not make sense for everyone to know that X fleet has a flagship. It is natural that at this game, most will want to hide their Flagship. So I propose something new.

Upon Flagship naming (When you pay the 25 credits fee) you get to choose whether the Flagship will be Private or Public. If public, it will show everywhere (at battle reports,plunder page and spy network -> not gossip page). If Private, it will not show anywhere but to you.

However, those who choose public, should get an extra bonus. You name it.

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I believe that we should stick to this topic, the other one can be locked and go to the archives. I leave this for OP to decide.
If you choose to continue here, just update the first topic.

You could go by separating what is final and what is not. When you tag something as final, then you will also get negative feedback from those that disagree. Those who agree, usually do not react so it's a good way to start measuring feedback.

Finally, remember that this is a major feature and this is a long discussion. We need frequent summaries and at which point the discussion currently is. This will also help more people to jump in. Having to read 150 posts is worse than having to read 1 summary post. You made one, but you still need to start accepting or rejecting ideas as final.

For example, if I was the op, I would start by setting that ALL will be able to create a Flagship. This would be final. Then, I would update all my views according to what I have read and what I believe. Then, I would direct the discussion to compiling the list of abilities as for me, this is what is mostly open for discussion right now. Only after I had an initial list of abilities and a rough description of what each would do, I would guide the discussion on getting a final functionality on how to get them.

Of course, this is just me and I am being this detailed only to provide alternatives. Everyone can have his own way. However, Skyhawk, I really appreciate your moderation so far. I know how hard it is and given that this is actually your first time in such a role, you are doing well. Keep it up!

[DezNutz]

but i kinda like it...


**Dead Men Tell No Tales - X% chance to kill the crew of the last ship in the losing fleet. Your fleet gains half danger.

thats the only thing im unsure of..

I'm also unsure on that ability. The reason being that fleets that are hit may be traveling and a crew of 15 is required for travel. Setting a limit so that it doesn't kill below 15 would make this ability useless as most tails are cutters, howkers, or sloops that have small crews already.

[Banger]

but i kinda like it...


**Dead Men Tell No Tales - X% chance to kill the crew of the last ship in the losing fleet. Your fleet gains half danger.

thats the only thing im unsure of..

I'm also unsure on that ability. The reason being that fleets that are hit may be traveling and a crew of 15 is required for travel. Setting a limit so that it doesn't kill below 15 would make this ability useless as most tails are cutters, howkers, or sloops that have small crews already.

If the ship loses crew midsail it should still continue to the next port and then would stop just as if someone hits you with a flood. Also I would think it function similar to assassins. If I get hit with a merchant assassin the fleet will continue to trade as long as I don't terminate the trade route.

The main function I like is halving danger.