Dev Team - Flagships

[DezNutz]

I say the pirate version of the flagship should be the strongest flagship possible, and the only counter is another pirates flagship and pirate hunter flagship. A traders flagship should never be able to beat a pirates flagship. A flagship should be able to only have perks for the desired paths the player wishes to take, and not be able to combine two paths or all of them. A trader flagship for example, will never counter a pirate flagship. However, a pirate hunter flagship can counter the pirate flagship. A privateer flagship can be countered by itself and a trader flagship depending on the stats and experience. A fishing flagship being naturally and statistically countered by pirate flagship and privateer flagship.

The privateer and pirate flagship going at it is even odds and all depends on the captain of the ship. Same goes for tactics and strength of the ship.

A trader flagship will give trader bonuses, privateer more naval abilities for combatting trader and pirate flagships, a pirate hunter to completely dessimate the pirate flagship but still have issues against privateer flagships. Pirates and nobleman fight different naturally and historically. This should be taken to account as the path changes fighting style.

Just my two cents for this.

Overly complex and no. If a trader has built up a better flagship it shouldn't automatically lose against a pirate whose flagship is not as good, just because it's a pirate flagship.

Are you sure you're not Grimrock's twin brother?

[Banger]

I think it's silly that trader flagships are even part of the plan. Flagship was interested to be a PvP perk. Traders just got plantations and with the ability now to purchase all resources on all ports they don't even need ships to run a plantation successfully.

Not everything in this game has to cater to the entire base. There should simple be perks that are beneficial to certain playstyle. Anyone should be able to have a flagship but it should purely be a PvP ship, there is no reason to always scratch the back of traders. Read this to yourself and see if it even sounds logical, "let's give traders a boat they can leave sitting in one port and it will buff their plantation production by 25%". I wish I had 6 hands so I could give that 6 thumbs down...

[PFH]

I agree with banger on his point

[Dmanwuzhere]

heck with a flagship how about just cannons that can be aimed from plantations and any one a cannon attacks it sinks all the victims fleets blows up their bank accounts sells all the voodoo and gives the cash converted to the trader firing from his plantation and once every one has cleared out and the cannon is useless for fighting it boosts the plantation owners food 200 percent the port it is based in converts all citizens automatically to the plantation slave roll call..... in return the pirates get a plus one speed to their favorite sloop

am i getting the hang of this

[Meliva]

I think it's silly that trader flagships are even part of the plan. Flagship was interested to be a PvP perk. Traders just got plantations and with the ability now to purchase all resources on all ports they don't even need ships to run a plantation successfully.

Not everything in this game has to cater to the entire base. There should simple be perks that are beneficial to certain playstyle. Anyone should be able to have a flagship but it should purely be a PvP ship, there is no reason to always scratch the back of traders. Read this to yourself and see if it even sounds logical, "let's give traders a boat they can leave sitting in one port and it will buff their plantation production by 25%". I wish I had 6 hands so I could give that 6 thumbs down...

I thought you were a pirate. Just go out, chop off 4 hands off some drunkard who passed out and problem solved.

But back on topic, I do agree that flagships should mainly be pvp oriented. And that having it buff plantations is just illogical. I mean I suppose you could argue the workers work harder knowing a ship is nearby with tons of firepower and men who could beat them, but even that's a stretch.

But keep up the discussion. This is something that needs to be added, and is really overdue, but it definately needs fine tuning.

[DezNutz]

Goal is to get more PvP Battles. A pirate flagship doesn't change the fact that there are few active players as pirates. It doesn't and can't make plundering for pirates or anyone else a low risk endeavor. So piracy/plunder doesn't and can't really change by having a flagship. You just now have a ship that gets some bonuses in regards to PvP. Those bonuses can reduce risk and costs, and increase gains, but risk still exists.

Last I checked, piracy doesn't require a flagship to plunder traders. So where is the enticement for all the players to jump back to being a pirate.

Almost everyone complaining about Flagship not being a pirate perk aren't even pirates.


Here is the big picture that I see. Increasing PvP Battles needs to occur on a game wide scale. That means that more than just pirates need to be getting involved in PvP actions. And by getting involved, I don't mean be just on the receiving end. For that to occur, there has to be an enticement for everyone to engage in PvP.

A pirates only flagship doesn't help this. A flagship for everyone can (plus it solves some functional problems with having a flagship), but only if there is enticement to engage in PvP Battles. How do you get traders to build a flagship and engage in PvP battles? Simple, include enticements that work in their benefit.

I'm not against pirates getting some perks that aren't available to others, but we have to look beyond the corner of the picture frame.

[Dmanwuzhere]

Goal is to get more PvP Battles. A pirate flagship doesn't change the fact that there are few active players as pirates. It doesn't and can't make plundering for pirates or anyone else a low risk endeavor. So piracy/plunder doesn't and can't really change by having a flagship. You just now have a ship that gets some bonuses in regards to PvP. Those bonuses can reduce risk and costs, and increase gains, but risk still exists.

Last I checked, piracy doesn't require a flagship to plunder traders. So where is the enticement for all the players to jump back to being a pirate.

Almost everyone complaining about Flagship not being a pirate perk aren't even pirates.


Here is the big picture that I see. Increasing PvP Battles needs to occur on a game wide scale. That means that more than just pirates need to be getting involved in PvP actions. And by getting involved, I don't mean be just on the receiving end. For that to occur, there has to be an enticement for everyone to engage in PvP.

A pirates only flagship doesn't help this. A flagship for everyone can (plus it solves some functional problems with having a flagship), but only if there is enticement to engage in PvP Battles. How do you get traders to build a flagship and engage in PvP battles? Simple, include enticements that work in their benefit.

I'm not against pirates getting some perks that aren't available to others, but we have to look beyond the corner of the picture frame.

feniks version gives incentive to be a pirate and an opening for hunting pirates as well as adding to nation play...... but plantation bonuses is more appealing and important i guess the advisor wasnt very helpful huh

[Noffin]

If you insist on making perks for everyone then add bonuses for goldsmith, banks, shipwrights. Then when that is done lets revamp all those others to include perks for everyone. This is a game where you choose how you want to play. All choices should have a pro/con to them.

[DezNutz]

Goal is to get more PvP Battles. A pirate flagship doesn't change the fact that there are few active players as pirates. It doesn't and can't make plundering for pirates or anyone else a low risk endeavor. So piracy/plunder doesn't and can't really change by having a flagship. You just now have a ship that gets some bonuses in regards to PvP. Those bonuses can reduce risk and costs, and increase gains, but risk still exists.

Last I checked, piracy doesn't require a flagship to plunder traders. So where is the enticement for all the players to jump back to being a pirate.

Almost everyone complaining about Flagship not being a pirate perk aren't even pirates.


Here is the big picture that I see. Increasing PvP Battles needs to occur on a game wide scale. That means that more than just pirates need to be getting involved in PvP actions. And by getting involved, I don't mean be just on the receiving end. For that to occur, there has to be an enticement for everyone to engage in PvP.

A pirates only flagship doesn't help this. A flagship for everyone can (plus it solves some functional problems with having a flagship), but only if there is enticement to engage in PvP Battles. How do you get traders to build a flagship and engage in PvP battles? Simple, include enticements that work in their benefit.

I'm not against pirates getting some perks that aren't available to others, but we have to look beyond the corner of the picture frame.

feniks version gives incentive to be a pirate and an opening for hunting pirates as well as adding to nation play...... but plantation bonuses is more appealing and important i guess the advisor wasnt very helpful huh

I've read Feniks' version. It's interesting but enticing players to being a pirate isn't going make PvP Battles more common. It doesn't change the PvP dynamic.

Example:

100 players
80 are pure traders
10 traders but engage in plunder from time to time
9 privateers
1 pirate


Pirate Flagship entices some players to piracy:

80 Pure Traders
5 privateers
15 pirates

PvP increases, but 80% of the players are only on the receiving side of that PvP. How many players do you think are going to jump to become a pirate for a flagship? 15% of the community? More? I doubt that.

The number of players that initiate PvP Battles needs to increase. So you entice a few players to piracy, but that isn't really changing anything. There is still no benefit for pure traders to engage in PvP. Players that will be pirate hunters, will either be players that are small time plunders or privateers and still be only a small group of players. It isn't an enticement to get most active players engaging in PvP.

[Meliva]

The big problem though Dez is it would be very hard to entice traders to engage in PvP willingly, and the amount of motivation it would take to make it worth it would have to be quite the considerable amount. Most traders would prefer not to attack others except perhaps in retaliation, or maybe an occasional hit if a juicy target shows up. After all, trading is super profitable, but if you tick off people and get raided that can really damage profit.

Wanting to make PvP increase is good-but trying to entice traders is something I think just won't work without giving them quite the incentive. I think it would be best to make pirate life and privateer life more appealing to convert some traders into those paths-with more pirates and privateers that means more raids on traders-which can motivate them to hit back.