Fishing Ship - Dogger (Medium)

[Most Lee Harmless]

And a SotL is 100 GB... an LMM is 10... 250 days of 24/7 fishing with no pauses and no attacks and hey.. you get the investment in the fleet back.. um.. can we get a special icon.. maybe a nice hat to wear too.. you know.. to justify the stupidity... sorry... I mean considered risk taken?

1125 gold bars... sorry thats just an certifiably insane level of cost.

Do we have to prove my earlier point that nothing can ever be better than running a fleet of lvl howkers in trade to such a sublimely ridiculous extent?

I'm done with this conversation.. no more or my fecking head will explode.

[Shadowood]

And a SotL is 100 GB... an LMM is 10... 250 days of 24/7 fishing with no pauses and no attacks and hey.. you get the investment in the fleet back.. um.. can we get a special icon.. maybe a nice hat to wear too.. you know.. to justify the stupidity... sorry... I mean considered risk taken?

1125 gold bars... sorry thats just an certifiably insane level of cost.

Do we have to prove my earlier point that nothing can ever be better than running a fleet of lvl howkers in trade to such a sublimely ridiculous extent?

I'm done with this conversation.. no more or my fecking head will explode.

Thanks for providing constructive feedback and a suggestion that you think would work.

[Shadowood]

Danik do you own a LVL 20 Gold Smith? Come on man...

[Most Lee Harmless]

No, I dont have a lvl20 goldsmith... too busy chucking my coin at 'developments' and 'improvements' ... oh and keeping the nation/port nonsense fuelled for far too long.

2.5million per ship... for an unarmed fishing vessel. Think about that. Thats a BoW price for a rowing boat.
It will be cheaper to run 5 x lvl4 Sotls in your fishing fleet.

And yep..I have made my suggestion for what might work.. several times already.

Constructive criticism? Go back and look at your costs. Look at the cost of lvl10. Now consider this. You also want a guaranteed sink chance if hit. So, how many times will you be happy re-levelling after getting hit?

[DezNutz]

And a SotL is 100 GB... an LMM is 10... 250 days of 24/7 fishing with no pauses and no attacks and hey.. you get the investment in the fleet back.. um.. can we get a special icon.. maybe a nice hat to wear too.. you know.. to justify the stupidity... sorry... I mean considered risk taken?

1125 gold bars... sorry thats just an certifiably insane level of cost.

Do we have to prove my earlier point that nothing can ever be better than running a fleet of lvl howkers in trade to such a sublimely ridiculous extent?

I'm done with this conversation.. no more or my fecking head will explode.

No it isn't.

The Trade Galleon, currently the best fishing ship, costs a total of 1.41M gc to build to LVL 10, excluding resources. And while you only need a LVL 1 TG (60k) to fish at it's max rate, the ability of the dogger should come at a cost.

The Dogger outpaces the TG at LVL 5. Which based on the 50 GB base would be 250 Gold Bars or roughly 586k gold coin to upgrade to LVL 5.

These costs are not outrageous.

Furthermore, I at least put forward a number. What do you suggest?

As for reference here is a cost chart for ships.



And if I recall, you were the one who insisted on having a ship that Levels Up. I initially preferred a level 1 only ship and then conceded to a LVL 5. A LVL1 ship would have minimal costs but have great risk during plunder. 5 Ships in a fleet and tail is guaranteed sunk if plundered. You lose a dogger, you just build a new one and you repo the cost of the ship in relatively short time. But nope, need to have levels. Now we have levels, it costs too much.

[DezNutz]

No, I dont have a lvl20 goldsmith... too busy chucking my coin at 'developments' and 'improvements' ... oh and keeping the nation/port nonsense fuelled for far too long.

2.5million per ship... for an unarmed fishing vessel. Think about that. Thats a BoW price for a rowing boat.
It will be cheaper to run 5 x lvl4 Sotls in your fishing fleet.

And yep..I have made my suggestion for what might work.. several times already.

Constructive criticism? Go back and look at your costs. Look at the cost of lvl10. Now consider this. You also want a guaranteed sink chance if hit. So, how many times will you be happy re-levelling after getting hit?

I've conceded on the 100% sink chance. However I think there should be a minimum. Doggers shouldn't have a 0% chance.

[Bomont]

Lots of good ideas in this thread and I like the direction.

But IMO a recurring issue is that the proposed additions/changes to the game seem to all be balanced around well-established players. 1,000 gold bars seems trivial to someone who's played this game for a few years, but I remember thinking a couple hundred gold bars was a staggering amount when just starting the game.

I know we need improvements/new challenges to hold the interest of long-term players, but we also often complain about the dearth of new players. Look at plantations - even some relatively wealthy players don't find it worth their effort; for new players they are either non-existent as a game-play element or a frustration if they are misguided enough to try them out.

Fleets, whether they be trading or pirates, scale as the player grows due to the cost of crew escalating. This makes it possible for new players to get started (and the initial plundering makes it even easier for new players if they are aware they can get free captains). I suggest that the cost of fishing should more closely follow that model so that a new player can get started with fishing in a small way, and have more things to do in the game.

The other good thing about basic growth with ships/fleets is that the new player can see how the costs escalate and doesn't suddenly realize that they just got in over their head. Hideouts and plantations can be a trap that stunts the growth of new players. It's easily known if you do a little research and join a good guild, but as we all know, lots of new players don't do that initially.

Fishing should be more of an entry level business. Fishing would seem to be an easier business to start than a trade route even, let alone a plantation or goldsmith.

[DezNutz]

Lots of good ideas in this thread and I like the direction.

But IMO a recurring issue is that the proposed additions/changes to the game seem to all be balanced around well-established players. 1,000 gold bars seems trivial to someone who's played this game for a few years, but I remember thinking a couple hundred gold bars was a staggering amount when just starting the game.

I know we need improvements/new challenges to hold the interest of long-term players, but we also often complain about the dearth of new players. Look at plantations - even some relatively wealthy players don't find it worth their effort; for new players they are either non-existent as a game-play element or a frustration if they are misguided enough to try them out.

Fleets, whether they be trading or pirates, scale as the player grows due to the cost of crew escalating. This makes it possible for new players to get started (and the initial plundering makes it even easier for new players if they are aware they can get free captains). I suggest that the cost of fishing should more closely follow that model so that a new player can get started with fishing in a small way, and have more things to do in the game.

The other good thing about basic growth with ships/fleets is that the new player can see how the costs escalate and doesn't suddenly realize that they just got in over their head. Hideouts and plantations can be a trap that stunts the growth of new players. It's easily known if you do a little research and join a good guild, but as we all know, lots of new players don't do that initially.

Fishing should be more of an entry level business. Fishing would seem to be an easier business to start than a trade route even, let alone a plantation or goldsmith.

The baseline dogger would be inexpensive and still produce at a decent rate. A rate that would be way better than the other ships of comparable initial cost. A new player could easily afford the baseline. The real gold bar cost comes from leveling.

Better rates cost more money. It's quite simply that.

[DezNutz]

A more detailed overview of costs/characteristics for the dogger. Data is based on the dogger having multiple levels.

Dogger

Characteristics:
Cargo: 100
Crew: 15
Cannons: 0
Max HP: 50
Speed: Slow (Not Applicable - Fishing Vessels were not designed for open sea travel.)

Initial Build Costs:
Turns: 10
Gold Coin: 12,500gc
Wood: 180
Iron: 16
Tools: 10
Cotton: 20
Gold Bars: 5

[Hawk]

I don't think it should cost any gold bars to make fishing vessels. I like the original costs proposed as well, easy for newbies and cheap.

The downsides are enough, for the benefits. No cannons, no versatility, and a minimum sink chance.. geez lol. Plus you gotta invest in Fishermen.
To make Doggers so expensive makes it not worth it imo.