Ships Market: Sell to shipwright if no bid (Small)

[Most Lee Harmless]

I'll reiterate my view that the whole ship market process is way too long and long-winded : If I want to sell a ship, I want it sold now, if I want to buy a ship, I want to buy it now : the whole delay while, having found a buyer at your start price which can and has taken weeks, you wait for 2-3 days for another buyer to outbid it, is, to me, a waste of time : I have asked for sellers to have the option to sell it instantly at the marked price, or choose to auction it.
The ship market, as is, doesnt work for me. I shall not use it for future ship sales, I'll take the 70% shipwright price in coin I can use today, thank-you, rather than wait for a possible extra credit weeks down the road.

[Captain Jack]

I have 2 SOL that are up for sail and have been for a while. I believe the asking price is fair and I would rather sell them for gold instead of getting such low credit for them. I still maintain that as a seller, I should be able to decide to pull it off the market if no one is bidding at my asking price or add an alternative gold pricing so you can bid both ways. That would require establishing a standard gold to credit formula though.

If you are telling me the 60 point SOL is worth 100 credits then I have to strongly disagree!

Obviously, I have not told anywhere that a 60points SoL is worth 100 credits and I have seen 43 points SoLs to be sold for 125.

The price for the lvl 10 SoL you have (which is not a 60pointer, you do not have any 60pointers at the market) seems a good price for you. It is reasonable for the buyer too. It is not however cheap or what one would call a bargain. I believe that it is only a matter of time before it is sold. I believe that it is reasonable to wait too as you are selling at a normal rate. I do not think that I should give you the opportunity, as a game developer, to pull it off the market just because you cannot get your good price in short time. I think that keeping this impossible, helps the game and the market more. But I am here to hear your further arguments and I can tell you that I have no taboos; if it is better for the game, i will do it. As it stands now, I am not yet convinced but I can discuss it further.

Danik, you are right and I would like the same. This is however an online multiplayer game where setting up sales is the easiest thing to do and we are not really ready to monitor every sale. We prefer the players to do this in fact and we ensure that the space for cheating is as minimum as possible. That's the reason for the delays and it is not something that can change.

[Sebena]

to try solution for Danik I would say easiest way would be making submarket for players whou would like to buy ship now with reasonable fee of course like selling it there would cost let's say 5 credits per ships ( numbers are discutable) and 10% of the requested price so let's say someone sells SotL 60 points for 450 credits earning would be 440 5 credits to put ship there and 5 credits after it is bought

[PhoenixKnight]

I already sold the 60 pointer before for 100 credit. I want to take the remaining two off, I just cannot. As for short time, I would call 3-5 days short, 1 week long and 2 weeks too long. But that might be different from what you think, so please let me know your time views to have a reference.With the setting as it is Ship Market will not function well and players will be less motivated to use. I get that even with 30 days some players may deem it acceptable to hide a ship but is it fair to the rest?

As for discussing the mechanism for returning ship to owners by auction expiration, here are my suggestions:

1. you can limit selling to 5 ships per player similar to hideout. That no one can hide a 1000 ships in the market.

2. you can set specific parameters like if the ship sold fits a certain price range for a certain period without bids during that time frame, then the owner is allowed to pull it out. Market works with supply and demand. Let's say a level 10 SOL with 60 points market price average 400 credits, then if listed price >300 & <450 & Time in Market>=30 days & Number of bids = 0 , then owner can pull ship off market.

3.you can also set max listing price to be Average price +50 credits so no one can list their ship at an excessive range beyond acceptable market prices hence taking advantage.

4. If you really have to, you can impose penalties for pulling ship off market like loss of credit, gold, ship level, points,...etc

It is more development but I think it is a worthy feature.

I have 2 SOL that are up for sail and have been for a while. I believe the asking price is fair and I would rather sell them for gold instead of getting such low credit for them. I still maintain that as a seller, I should be able to decide to pull it off the market if no one is bidding at my asking price or add an alternative gold pricing so you can bid both ways. That would require establishing a standard gold to credit formula though.

If you are telling me the 60 point SOL is worth 100 credits then I have to strongly disagree!

Obviously, I have not told anywhere that a 60points SoL is worth 100 credits and I have seen 43 points SoLs to be sold for 125.

The price for the lvl 10 SoL you have (which is not a 60pointer, you do not have any 60pointers at the market) seems a good price for you. It is reasonable for the buyer too. It is not however cheap or what one would call a bargain. I believe that it is only a matter of time before it is sold. I believe that it is reasonable to wait too as you are selling at a normal rate. I do not think that I should give you the opportunity, as a game developer, to pull it off the market just because you cannot get your good price in short time. I think that keeping this impossible, helps the game and the market more. But I am here to hear your further arguments and I can tell you that I have no taboos; if it is better for the game, i will do it. As it stands now, I am not yet convinced but I can discuss it further.

Danik, you are right and I would like the same. This is however an online multiplayer game where setting up sales is the easiest thing to do and we are not really ready to monitor every sale. We prefer the players to do this in fact and we ensure that the space for cheating is as minimum as possible. That's the reason for the delays and it is not something that can change.

[Greythorn]

Ship Market Sorting Suggestion

It appears that as new ships (of the same type) are added to the market, the old older listings are pushed further down (sorted newest first). It should be sorted oldest first. The way it is now creates a distorted view of 'time on market' and makes it harder to sell slow moving ships, ie Howkers.

[Most Lee Harmless]

The buyer can already sort listings by type or by price, attribute score, etc, etc : the 'default' sorting shows those already with a bid first by shortest expiry time : I had not noticed how it sorted the remainder.

I still argue for a 'immediate sell' option : I would not mind some % fees/turn cost being applied on that option : and yes, I also see a 'cheat' could be worked into such : but then folk swapping ships/gold/credits above or below the 'normal' value can happen without the market anyway, so, in my view, the option justifies the occasional risk which would, after all, be in plain sight for any player to report.

[Sir Sam Lowe]

Aye! It's very good to have a market where you can sell ships without fear. However, it's a long process and I doubt some ships will be sold.

For example:I had a lvl10 Brig on market for 2 weeks at 19 creds [no bids]
3rd week [15 creds~no bids ]
4th week I made an arrangement with another player to sell for 1 cred because I couldn't bother with it.
Half a week later~its sold for around 2.3mill in gc (i don't know the amount in credit)

It's bad business, not a profit it's a loss.

Believe me I had greater use for the credits in the 2nd week than when it was eventually sold. Anyone who have ships on the market can tell you if its not one of those more popular ships then you are "stone cold ".

[Greythorn]

@Danik - You are correct that the buyer can sort by type. However, let use an example. Let's say you post a Lvl 1 Howker for sale. There are several adhead of you 'in the queue' and you are waiting your turn to be top on the list. After a couple days, several other players load the market with multiple Lvl 1 Howkers. You have now gone from page 1 to page 3. A buyer looking for a Lvl 1 Howker is going to bid on the first one that meets their criteria not the last one on page 3. Sorting the for sale list buy expiration time, then by oldest first, gives those who have waited the longest a better chance to sell their ships.

[Most Lee Harmless]

No argument from me on that, Grey

[DezNutz]

Bumping. This was approved by CJ but than Postponed. This has been discussed in a more recent topic.

I really don't see the need to revote on this subject. As it was originally approved.

I will provide my input. Any ship that sits on the ship market for more than X days (30 days IMO but that's debatable) without a bid should automatically be sold to the shipwright using the standard 70% of the ships value.