Using a proxy to cast voodoo? Action to condemn

[Stan Rogers]

Well William, whether it is done covertly or overtly, the issue does seem to keep circling your guild with a few members being at the right time and place to grab a handful of GC before anyone else is aware. Do you not get notifications on your guild msg board that "Somebody" will light at the top of the hour ?
If not, I would guess it happens covertly among a few members of your guild.
To me, this would be abusing one's own guild mates as well.
Of course the guild leadership will stand by their membership as a good leader should, however, how long before this blind faith taints the whole guild's integrity ?

Oh btw Stan, your conspiracy theory's make you sound like someone wearing a tinfoil hat and hiding in their basement. I had factual information that I got straight from the horse's mouth and I gave it to you when I was in Ayes and you glazed right over it in favor of your speculative claims that were fueled by gossip you got from your inner circle that wouldn't know the backdoor business of Avonmora if that door smacked them right in the butt.

Before we go about accusing someone of their tinfoil hat being on too tight, lets see if CJ's investigation turns up something that should be considered cheating.
After all, CJ is the only person here that has a chance of proving the accusations leveled not only by me but numerous other players and guilds.

And B.S., nice angle to finally get CJ to take this ongoing complaint seriously.

[DezNutz]

I have not posted yet here as I am busy trying to find EXACTLY what it is all about. I am almost done now so soon I will post what needs to be posted, for the game integrity first and foremost.

Keep it calm till then.

Quick Summation. xPROx appears to be milking/pushing. The conclusion is being drawn based on his game interactions of casting voodoo on a large variety of targets while not gaining any benefit from such activity as he owns no ships to conduct plunder. He comes online casts and then leaves.

[Shadowood]

And B.S., nice angle to finally get CJ to take this ongoing complaint seriously.

Ouch..

[Stan Rogers]

And B.S., nice angle to finally get CJ to take this ongoing complaint seriously.

Ouch..

Just an observation. How many complaints have been made regarding something be done about toxic game play and witch doctors. Dozens of potential solutions offered. Some good...some bad.
Time to fix it !
Like it or not, it is a serious issue that needs addressing or it's going to cost the game some of its long term players.

[sXs]

Well since I was named specifically in the original post, here are my thoughts. First things first, I was in no way a part of any “proxy” arrangement and frankly I am getting pretty pissed about being tied into this again. I don’t have a need personally, nor do I condone the use proxies or witch doctors. Hell I don’t even like undercover voodoo. Much like Banger, I simply happened to be online and active at the time. I had set 1 billion plunder as a goal and was trying to accomplish it without casting any cards. I was simply patrolling the plunder boards. Yes I hit Sparrow, but only until I reached the plateau I was trying to reach. You can see by the time stamp of my last hit on Sparrow, and the time I posted in forums about reaching the 1 billion mark that I stopped. I had turns left and could have easily hit him more. Timing was unfortunate for Sparrow, but it was not coordinated.

My definition of a proxy is anyone starts an action on someone else’s behalf whether it be casting cards, raiding, or whatever. There are two reasons someone might employ a proxy player.

#1 That person is unable to carry out the action themselves. Maybe a trader that doesn’t have the cards or ships to take the action they deem necessary for whatever reason.

#2 That person is unwilling to carry out the action directly. Whether it be deniability, reputation, or simply anonymity.
Now to sanction a single player, change game mechanics, or take action against this type of gameplay will need serious consideration. Afterall, we have an entire guild that acts as a proxy for others if the price is right.

How can you ***** and complain about proxy players in one breath, and argue that this certain guild is just fine. And before you go down the, “but at least they have ships that can be attacked” think about this. What is the first thing experienced player do when faced with serious conflict? They go skinny and sell off 99% of their ships so no real damage can be done. Only need to look back to the recent Merc/VUDU conflict. All ships of value were either stashed away in marinas or sold at market. (This is whole separate conversation about manipulation of the ship market).

Now consider other types of “proxy” actions. The generosity card, although I am not like Banger on this, I do not want to see it go away, but casting generosity is a proxy action. Raising someone’s gold level because at that moment they are unable to do it themselves. The same can be said of serenity and purify when cast on someone other than yourself. Maybe the person is not online at the time and can’t clear themselves, or maybe they don’t have the cards to do it, still by definition a proxy action. There are numerous examples, and by definition, all are proxy actions.

I am not advocating for anything to change with any of those cards, simply pointing it out. Months ago I proposed a solution to the witch doctor/proxy play. It got little to no attention. Others have proposed ideas with similar results. So here we are today. Now the great Black Sparrow calls foul and all of Avonmora is in an uproar.

To Sparrow I say this, I respect you sir, but, welcome to the conversation………. Finally.

[Lefty]

Simple facts, PRO gets a call, comes online to cast on the targets for those who called him, then logs off to go about his life. The ones who called, collect the gains through port actions without wasting their own turns to cast and walk away claiming it was all luck of opportunity.

Someone called pro to save 24 turns by not having to cast FFJ themself ?

I can see this happening if you got yourself in deep and need help from a friend that plays occasionaly.
Or maybe as you say not for themselves at all anymore, and I see your point. But that example is just silly.

Someone called Pro to avoid promised retaliation towards VUDU. Just my two cents. i have been playing this game for a while. I was in VUDU. I know what stinks and what doesnt. This stinks. However , having no proof of any of it makes this whole thread a pointless waste of time.

[sXs]

It seems there is a general consensus that Xprox attacks are not welcomed since he is a witch doctor and his attacks always seem to be followed by someone else’s. In some cases it is Taylor, or a VUDU member.

Not wanting to point a finger but there seems to be a recurring pattern

"Not wanting to point a finger"........ yet you pointed a finger.....

[DezNutz]

Feniks,
The issue isn't proxy playing, as the basis of being a proxy is allowable game play. (I'm pretty sure Vane made a similar statement earlier, could have been someone else). The issue is proxy witch doctors. And even if PRO wasn't used as a proxy and it was pure coincidence that you were all online at the same time, the issue comes with the fact the PRO comes online casts voodoo in which there is no benefit to himself and leaves. He holds no ships and conducts no plunder or skirmish. Either way it's destructive game play. The proxy part is just a point of notice to the destructive behavior.

Additionally, there can exist only so many coincidences. As time moves on patterns form, allowing conclusions can be easily drawn, but in that sense that doesn't mean that those conclusions are 100% correct.

[DezNutz]

It seems there is a general consensus that Xprox attacks are not welcomed since he is a witch doctor and his attacks always seem to be followed by someone else’s. In some cases it is Taylor, or a VUDU member.

Not wanting to point a finger but there seems to be a recurring pattern

"Not wanting to point a finger"........ yet you pointed a finger.....

As I said in my previous statement. There are only so many coincidences. As time goes on, patterns will appear as PHX has stated. While patterns are not indicative of collaboration, it easy to draw conclusions from those patterns.

[sXs]

The fundamental basis of a proxy is not against the rules nor should it be. It is also not the true intention on this thread or debate.

The problem, is not playing your account to the fullest and being here only to act on behalf of another player/account.

Merc do it for payment and are in fact playing their accounts to the benefit of their accounts. The cases we discuss are quite the opposite and a clear milking/pushing violation is happening.

We are not allowed to give retirement gifts when leaving as that falls under pushing. This is exactly that, without assets actually changing hands.

Personally i do not see the difference. Proxy is proxy. Both are playing for other peoples benefit therefore it is a pushing scenario. If one is..... they both are.