Thriving markets

[Jack Teach]

pretty sure the Vikings would be able to figure out what was killing them would probably be the big metal object making loud sounds and smoke a few men are standing next to that coincidentally started making said sounds and smoke around the same time they started dying. Not exactly a hard thing to figure out. Then once they figured that out, they would probably then rush said cannon and butcher the men manning it. And depending on distance, and how good a crew was manning it the crew might be able to shoot out a second, maybe a 3rd shot. Definitely no more then 4.

Firstly if it's on a ship, they can't rush them, and secondly, by the time they would have they figured it out they'd be dead. Also, it's impossible to suggest that such a primitive people would react to something so deadly as a cannonball ripimg them and their ship apart with such confidence. I personally think they'd be too shocked to do much at that point. They may have been smart for their time, but they'd be too dumbfounded to understand what was happening.

If its on a bloody ship, then they would know where it was coming from instantly-the other bloody ship-ESPECIALLY when they hear the sound coming from the ship, see the smoke from the ship and see the men on the ship interacting with the cannons. So they would figure it out more or less instantly after the first shot. And this is assuming they were not already heading to the pirate ship to board and pillage it. And again, vikings had the belief that if they are to die they WILL die-whether they run or fight. So like most people, if your dead no matter what, why not go down fighting. And survival instints would prevent the mfrom just doing nothing. If a 25 foot tall purple 5 armed alien came down and ate my brother i would be incredibly shocked, but I wouldn't stay that way for long, especially when i think its coming for me next-im either going to try to run away, or go down trying to kill my attacker-basic survival instincts.

By the time the Vikings had sailed there ship toward the pirate ship, they would have lost most of their numbers, and their mast, disabling them. They'd mostly be dead, so rowing isn't an option. Also, pirate sloops are quicker and more maneuverable, so they wouldn't be able to get close enough.

[Meliva]

not all pirates used sloops, and even a pirate sloop wouldn't beat a Viking longboat in shallow waters-since their longboats would use both sails AND oars to help outmaneuver and outspeed any ships they come across. And if we are talking about a sloop then that's less cannons and firepower then bigger ships-they wouldn't be able to kill most of the Vikings before they could reach, since not every shot they fire would hit. They also wouldn't mostly be dead after just one bloody round of combat. Even if they used grapeshot one round of fire wouldn't kill most of them unless a large amount of cannons were used at once- and a sloop certainly wouldn't be able to use that many cannons at once.

[Dmanwuzhere]

I scoff at your ignorance and obvious prejudice I do not care about any society more or less than another but I will scoff at those who do lol thats you.
Vikings were renowned for piracy so they were pirates and just how do you think pirates would pull up to vikings without them knowing obviously you are not aware of their naval tactics and they dang sure wouldnt roll up on a village unknown so to continue to try and twist a scenario in your favor is hard headed stupid and proof that you cannot be told so without feeling personally attacked lol maybe a safe room could be mentioned in the proper forum topic to aid you with your inabilty to accept you are wrong and your scenario is garbage

And if these pirates without any race nationality or personal history were so big and bad I wonder why piracy died so abruptly

[Jack Teach]

not all pirates used sloops, and even a pirate sloop wouldn't beat a Viking longboat in shallow waters-since their longboats would use both sails AND oars to help outmaneuver and outspeed any ships they come across. And if we are talking about a sloop then that's less cannons and firepower then bigger ships-they wouldn't be able to kill most of the Vikings before they could reach, since not every shot they fire would hit. They also wouldn't mostly be dead after just one bloody round of combat. Even if they used grapeshot one round of fire wouldn't kill most of them unless a large amount of cannons were used at once- and a sloop certainly wouldn't be able to use that many cannons at once.

Let's use a frigate as an example. A frigate could certainly easily destroy a Viking ship, the Viking ships may be small, but they're not THAT small. A frigate does not need every shot to hit its target, a couple well-aimed shots at the mast, and then a couple volleys from from the heavy guns, would sink the ship, and probably kill every man on board, large chunks of wood would kill them then. Also, even with oars, the Viking ships, like all ships with sails, weren't exceedingly fast.

[Meliva]

not all pirates used sloops, and even a pirate sloop wouldn't beat a Viking longboat in shallow waters-since their longboats would use both sails AND oars to help outmaneuver and outspeed any ships they come across. And if we are talking about a sloop then that's less cannons and firepower then bigger ships-they wouldn't be able to kill most of the Vikings before they could reach, since not every shot they fire would hit. They also wouldn't mostly be dead after just one bloody round of combat. Even if they used grapeshot one round of fire wouldn't kill most of them unless a large amount of cannons were used at once- and a sloop certainly wouldn't be able to use that many cannons at once.

Let's use a frigate as an example. A frigate could certainly easily destroy a Viking ship, the Viking ships may be small, but they're not THAT small. A frigate does not need every shot to hit its target, a couple well-aimed shots at the mast, and then a couple volleys from from the heavy guns, would sink the ship, and probably kill every man on board, large chunks of wood would kill them then. Also, even with oars, the Viking ships, like all ships with sails, weren't exceedingly fast.

A frigate wouldnt be able to fight a longship in shallow waters without beaching itself, rendering it helpless. And a longship with oars and sails could easily out manuaver a frigate. They could simply try to lead it to shallow waters while going as fast as they can and keeping out of range of the frigates cannons. And this is putting pirates in their ideal environment. You put those same pirates in a city with the vikings launching a raid on land, and most if not all those pirates are slaughtered if they don't run.

[Jack Teach]

I scoff at your ignorance and obvious prejudice I do not care about any society more or less than another but I will scoff at those who do lol thats you.
Vikings were renowned for piracy so they were pirates and just how do you think pirates would pull up to vikings without them knowing obviously you are not aware of their naval tactics and they dang sure wouldnt roll up on a village unknown so to continue to try and twist a scenario in your favor is hard headed stupid and proof that you cannot be told so without feeling personally attacked lol maybe a safe room could be mentioned in the proper forum topic to aid you with your inabilty to accept you are wrong and your scenario is garbage

And if these pirates without any race nationality or personal history were so big and bad I wonder why piracy died so abruptly

How am I ignorant? I'm not trying to twist things, I never said the pirates would approach them with out them knowing, all I'm saying, is if a ship with cannon, encounters a ship from a long distance away that has no cannons, they could be defeated. You ARE personally attacking me, you called me ignorant for things you ASSUMED I did. I think you can't handle people disagreeing with you.

[Jack Teach]

not all pirates used sloops, and even a pirate sloop wouldn't beat a Viking longboat in shallow waters-since their longboats would use both sails AND oars to help outmaneuver and outspeed any ships they come across. And if we are talking about a sloop then that's less cannons and firepower then bigger ships-they wouldn't be able to kill most of the Vikings before they could reach, since not every shot they fire would hit. They also wouldn't mostly be dead after just one bloody round of combat. Even if they used grapeshot one round of fire wouldn't kill most of them unless a large amount of cannons were used at once- and a sloop certainly wouldn't be able to use that many cannons at once.

Let's use a frigate as an example. A frigate could certainly easily destroy a Viking ship, the Viking ships may be small, but they're not THAT small. A frigate does not need every shot to hit its target, a couple well-aimed shots at the mast, and then a couple volleys from from the heavy guns, would sink the ship, and probably kill every man on board, large chunks of wood would kill them then. Also, even with oars, the Viking ships, like all ships with sails, weren't exceedingly fast.

A frigate wouldnt be able to fight a longship in shallow waters without beaching itself, rendering it helpless. And a longship with oars and sails could easily out manuaver a frigate. They could simply try to lead it to shallow waters while going as fast as they can and keeping out of range of the frigates cannons. And this is putting pirates in their ideal environment. You put those same pirates in a city with the vikings launching a raid on land, and most if not all those pirates are slaughtered if they don't run.

Pirates weren't stupid, they knew when the water was getting too shallow. Cannons could hit things from a long way away, the longboat would not be able to get out of range quick enough, the frigate could sail near the shallows and attack the Viking ship with cannonfire.

[Dmanwuzhere]

You should research the naval battles of vikings while they were far fewer than landbased battles they did happen and they were adept with the ships they crafted and have been attributed with stealing ships of enemies.
Lol an army of vikings of say 300 would be more than one ship and due to wealth being based on size of ships you would have so many ships to blow up that vary from 4 pairs of oars to normally 16 to 20 and the rarer 30 to 39 pairs of oars and the speed of those oars from varying locations in their trek would spell doom for any pirates with sloop or frig.
How quickly could you line up shots with 30 smaller vessels that seem to shoot forward without need of wind while being the recipient of arrows and at closer range spears until finally the proximity includes swords and axes.
At some point your ship would be on fire surrounded by those you feel would be so scared at a boom they could not move
Lol I know I know your pirates would be so fierce and calm with fire arrows and spears that each pirate would just pick up a cannon and stand where needed and fire it like a musket

[Meliva]

If the Vikings spot the pirates at the same time and the distance is already pretty decent-which it should be since Vikings would be keeping any eye out for other ships, they could then decide the ship is too large to take head on and turn and flee for shallow waters maybe make their way up a river that leads to the sea. The frigate at a great distance would be unlikely to land many hits especially with the longboat immediately moving away at top speeds. And in order to fire most of their cannons it would need to turn to one side, meaning after firing they would need to turn AGAIN to begin pursuing. Long story short the longboat would have a good chance of escaping the pirates. Since Vikings certainly were not stupid either.

[Jack Teach]

You should research the naval battles of vikings while they were far fewer than landbased battles they did happen and they were adept with the ships they crafted and have been attributed with stealing ships of enemies.
Lol an army of vikings of say 300 would be more than one ship and due to wealth being based on size of ships you would have so many ships to blow up that vary from 4 pairs of oars to normally 16 to 20 and the rarer 30 to 39 pairs of oars and the speed of those oars from varying locations in their trek would spell doom for any pirates with sloop or frig.
How quickly could you line up shots with 30 smaller vessels that seem to shoot forward without need of wind while being the recipient of arrows and at closer range spears until finally the proximity includes swords and axes.
At some point your ship would be on fire surrounded by those you feel would be so scared at a boom they could not move
Lol I know I know your pirates would be so fierce and calm with fire arrows and spears that each pirate would just pick up a cannon and stand where needed and fire it like a musket

I thought we were talking about 1 ship, not several. Also, yes, pirates could stand being shot at with arrows and the like. For that I will have to upgrade the amount of ships then....