Port Blockades (Large)

[sXs]

Again i disagree. How can we know the mechanics and impact until we see it in action. This is one upgrade that will be very hard for admin to simulate or test run except in game play.

Danik and Wolfie are both arguing an all or none stance.

[Most Lee Harmless]

Why do you need an MoW or even Sotl's to win?

Well, with unlimited damage cards, I'd say a fleet of sows could win such a battle : but there will be limits with only 5 such cards per player and 24 battles to be fought and no damage repair. Somehow, I dont see a howker fleet surviving to the end to make up the defenders required 5 fleets standing so... maybe something a little more powerful would be required, no?

Many ship classes between howker and MoW. Not to mention an MoW wouldn't last 24 rounds against many of them.

So the whole premise on the argument is the fact its believed by a few that they must ante up an MoW fleet to have a shot at winning the defense, and in doing so risk their valuable fleet? A little bit more planning and dissecting of the idea will reveal many more options for winning without sending in the most valuable ships.

Well, you have long experience in battle : maybe I have some too : and a few ideas how to play both sides of these blockades : but thats not the entire player-base (being modest but realistic) : we only have to look at the plunder-boards to see that sound fleet set-up and practice is not universal. I could posit many fleet set-ups which could maximise chances of success : but I dont have all those ships to hand. I would need to build them for most would not have place in my regular fleets : and I would need to build them at very short notice, and have turns and resources to hand to do it. Or have them already built sitting around waiting for action.

I want these big battles, I crave them : but it takes two to dance that tango and both must like the music : if not, its a solo parade, like bit of naked interpretive dance and also not very watchable or anything you might want to join in on

[Meliva]

I agree with danik, saying what this feature could be like with future features is not a valid argument for adding it as it is now. Instead we should be focusing on how to make this work with what we have now- then when those future features come then we could discuss changing it to compliment those features.

All due respect Melvina, we wont be able to change it because of Daniks arguement. It must be perfect from the outset.

It doesn't seem like that's what hes arguing, though I wont speak for him. But he does make a valid point, This feature shouldn't be added with the intent that it will work out with future features, it should be added so that it stands on its own with what features are currently implemented. Then when the future features come we can discuss altering this as well as other old features to better work with newer additions. So I propose we drop discussing future features on this thread, and instead work on discussing how to make this feature work with what we already have. When the future features are being added then we can start working on changing some old features but until then we should work with what we got.

[sXs]

Well, with unlimited damage cards, I'd say a fleet of sows could win such a battle : but there will be limits with only 5 such cards per player and 24 battles to be fought and no damage repair. Somehow, I dont see a howker fleet surviving to the end to make up the defenders required 5 fleets standing so... maybe something a little more powerful would be required, no?

Many ship classes between howker and MoW. Not to mention an MoW wouldn't last 24 rounds against many of them.

So the whole premise on the argument is the fact its believed by a few that they must ante up an MoW fleet to have a shot at winning the defense, and in doing so risk their valuable fleet? A little bit more planning and dissecting of the idea will reveal many more options for winning without sending in the most valuable ships.

Well, you have long experience in battle : maybe I have some too : and a few ideas how to play both sides of these blockades : but thats not the entire player-base (being modest but realistic) : we only have to look at the plunder-boards to see that sound fleet set-up and practice is not universal. I could posit many fleet set-ups which could maximise chances of success : but I dont have all those ships to hand. I would need to build them for most would not have place in my regular fleets : and I would need to build them at very short notice, and have turns and resources to hand to do it. Or have them already built sitting around waiting for action.

I want these big battles, I crave them : but it takes two to dance that tango and both must like the music : if not, its a solo parade, like bit of naked interpretive dance and also not very watchable or anything you might want to join in on

So start now. I have. Preparations are being made for both defense and attack side.

[Vane]

Great, so we agree the risk is easily mitigated and therefore not an issue, except perhaps for some newer players who've yet to learn but then again, they will make those mistakes on the plunderboards where losing their fleets is even more likely so we can chalk it up as learning for them and move on.

Now a new problem then? Not having the ships prepared and ready. Well in that case it comes down to either A: change ones setup and adapt to new environments in order to be prepared for different circumstances if one wants to participate, or B: Stay the same, not be ready or able to participate fully, and let the rest of the players interested do so.

Not being prepared or getting short notice is hardly a design flaw in this suggested feature..

[sXs]

I agree with danik, saying what this feature could be like with future features is not a valid argument for adding it as it is now. Instead we should be focusing on how to make this work with what we have now- then when those future features come then we could discuss changing it to compliment those features.

All due respect Melvina, we wont be able to change it because of Daniks arguement. It must be perfect from the outset.

It doesn't seem like that's what hes arguing, though I wont speak for him. But he does make a valid point, This feature shouldn't be added with the intent that it will work out with future features, it should be added so that it stands on its own with what features are currently implemented. Then when the future features come we can discuss altering this as well as other old features to better work with newer additions. So I propose we drop discussing future features on this thread, and instead work on discussing how to make this feature work with what we already have. When the future features are being added then we can start working on changing some old features but until then we should work with what we got.

This is one upgrade you can not divorced from future upgrades. Even CJ commented on future upgrades in this thread.

[Most Lee Harmless]

Again i disagree. How can we know the mechanics and impact until we see it in action. This is one upgrade that will be very hard for admin to simulate or test run except in game play.

Danik and Wolfie are both arguing an all or none stance.

Sheesh : have you even read what i have posted in this thread?

I want this feature. I want it to work. But if it doesnt, it will be a right frigging mess and will probably end up discredited and unused and whats the point of that? You want to be the attacker? Fine, so do I : but that needs folk who want to be the defender and just saying, well, they have to defend what they have or we take it dont wash as an argument for why they should give a monkeys toss about this feature : the defenders have to want to make it work too. And if they dont want to play, there is no 'game', there is no battle, there is no fun and there is no point to it.

[sXs]

Prologue

After taking into the consideration all recent developments, as well as the proposed developments at hand and after taking in mind War and Blockades idea by Haron and all the discussion afterwards, we have came up with a Ports Blockade suggestion.

Like with most features that we introduce lately (ie Skirmish, Diplomacy) this implementation will be divided in versions. At version 1.0, we will create the basic functionality. Then, after we learn with experience this time, we will extend it with all the goodies our hearts desire. The same is valid for all metrics used in Version 1.0. All can be revised later.

This suggestion is a candidate to replace Plantations for the PG V2.0 (Plantations will be moved to 2.1)

Port Blockade

What is it?
A port blockade is an action that allows the total control of the naval traffic of a port. There can be no types of blockades. Every blockade, no matter who establishes it, allows naval traffic control.

Who can do it?
Anyone can start a Port Blockade by simply selecting the appropriate fleet action. Once a Blockade starts, no one else can start a blockade at the same port until it completely resolves. Aspiring marauders will be able to either wait or join the current blockade at either side.

Limitations on initiating a blockade
This is the very starting problem. We need to filter attempts in a way that they will be realistic and in a way where individual freedom will be kept. For this reason, we are suggesting the following limitations:
-To start a Blockade,a Man of War ship (MoW) must be used in the fleet that starts it.
-The starting fleet gets 36 danger points.
-It will cost 144 Turns to initiate a Blockade.

Choosing a side

There are two possible sides in every blockade: Those supporting the blockade and those who do not.

The blockade initiator will be the one who decides who can participate in the blockade attacking side. The options will be:
-Everyone
-No one
-Upon individual request (These will be sent through a message. Once approved, the one who requested it will be able to add his fleets on the offensive side)
-Specific targets (These will be specified with no limitations. They can be individuals or nations or guilds).
-Combinations of the above

For the defending side, anyone can join.

To choose a side, you simply add your fleets to your preferred side.
To add a fleet, this must be at the port where the blockade started and it must be full (5 ships).

-During all states of a blockade, fleets in blockades cannot lose Danger points hourly and Danger voodoo cannot affect them.
-Players under Fugitive of Justice cannot join Blockades.
-Fleets in Blockades, cannot be attacked (plundered or skirmished).
-Every participant, may use up to 5 ship damage cards during the blockade duration.
-Non participants will not be able to use voodoo with either a fleet or ship target on fleets inside a blockade.
-Swarm of Worms card will not effect ships in a blockade.

How the Port Blockade is established
There are 4 possible phases for a blockade:

• 1)Blockade Preparation
Right after a blockade has started, there is a grace period before battle starts. This grace period will be 24hours at Port Blockades Version 1.0

This preparation period is important to keep the nature of the game less dependent on event occurrence time.
During Blockade Preparation, players can only add fleets.

An added fleet, no matter when it is added, cannot be removed before Blockade Resolution.



• 2)Blockade Battle
Once the Blockade Preparation ends, then the battle starts and lasts for 24 hours (version 1.0 metric)

At the top of the hour, a round of battles take places (total max: 24 rounds).
During every round, every fleet of the attacking side, randomly engages a fleet on the defending side.

-Every fleet can fight one battle per hour.
-If there are not enough fleet match ups, then the fleets who do not fight (those able to fight, those not yet fully damaged) repair themselves at the rate of 15% per ship.
-The +15% repair bonus is not lost if a ship is already at perfect state (100%). Any excess repair percentage is added as extra bonus to the fleets that do not fight (this is the bonus they get for outnumbering, getting better position,etc)
-Ships at 99% damage do not receive this bonus as they are considered sunk in battle.


During the battle (the whole 24hours phase):
-All damage conducted is final (it will not depend on the winner of the battle). This means that all ships get damaged during battles.
-Repair voodoo on blockade fleets have no effect.
-Players cannot repair their ships.


-Once a fleet receives full damage, it can no longer fight.
-While a fleet is not fully damaged (at least one ship with less than 99% damage), it continues to fight.

-Attackers may still add new fleets up to the last minute while defenders may not add new fleets in the last 4 hours of the battle.


• 3)Blockade Resolution
During the resolution phase, all fleets are given a grace period (24hours, Version 1.0 Metric) where they can be removed manually from the Blockade area. After the grace period ends, the fleets are automatically removed from the blockade.

A new blockade may not be attempted at the same port for 48hours (Version 1.0 Metric) after the Blockade Resolution.

If the blockade is successful, only the initiator will be able to attempt a new blockade at the port.
In this case, the Blockade (if battle is successful for the attacker) will be extended (Extension will play a role in statistics and might be used to generate more perks later).

Once battle resolves, there can be two outcomes:

A)BLOCKADE SUCCESS

-All fleets on the attackers side, get a penalty of 18 danger points.
An active blockade is established for a total of 72hours (Version 1.0 Metric)

B)BLOCKADE FAIL

-The blockade initiator may not initiate any other blockade for a total of 14 days.
-The initiation fleet gets an extra penalty of 180 danger points.
-All fleets on the defenders side, get a penalty of 18 danger points.

Blockade is successful if attacking fleets are more than defending fleets and defenders have less than 5 fleets standing



• 4)Active Blockade

The initiator of the Blockade is named as the Active Blockade Admiral. The admiral gets to manage the naval traffic during the duration of the Active Blockade.

The admiral will assemble 3 lists, which he will be able to setup before the Blockade Resolution and update anytime during the Blockade (active or not).

The three lists will be the following:
a)TOLL FEE list (Arriving fleets will pay a fee to enter the port - it will have a hard limit, most probably % based on cargo value - different percentage for gold bars).
b)Cargo Plunder list (All cargo carried by the incoming fleets will be sold back to the market for their gold coin equivalent. If the incoming resource is same as the port's, they will still be sold back to the market at half the price)
c)Free Pass

Automatic trade routes will pause in case of Cargo plunder.

The targets of each list will be the following:
i)Treaties (ie, countries that are at peace with your own)
ii)Guilds
More options will be avoided at version 1.0 to avoid making it too easy to avoid a blockade.

Individuals that find themselves in the TOLL FEE list, will pay this in order to pass the blockade (only arrivals count).
Every player will be able to set the maximum TOLL FEE he wants to pay, either globally and/or specifically for every blockade (since Preparation state).

In case for any reason the FEE is not paid, then targets of this list will automatically fall into the cargo plunder list.
If there is no cargo or the cargo is not full, then the incoming fleet will receive a +8 danger extra penalty (incomplete cargo will still be pillaged).

Earnings share
All earnings will be shared among all attackers in this way:
-Initiator gets to keep 25% of all income.
-The remaining 75% are distributed based on the damage their ships conducted.

The formula used will be the following:
Earnings Share (%) = ( Damage conducted by every participant * 100) / Total Damage Conducted by all attacking Ships
So, if the total damage is 10.000 and someone has conducted 1.000 dmg, he will receive 10% from the remaining 75%.

These earnings will be paid once the Blockade is over and will be collected in the same way Credits Exchange delivers its earnings; on next page to Plunder page.

-Every Blockade will be displayed on the map.
-Every Blockade will be mentioned in Global Events and all its details will be maintained for historic purposes (profits,participants,days,results are some of the entries that will be included).


Nations Role

Nations will play a significant supplementary role to blockades. After all, ports are controlled by nations.

Here are the initial suggestions (Wherever a number appears, it's a version 1.0 metric):
-Anyone who initiates or participates against a blockade owned by its own nation, is immediately declared as a Pirate except if this player is a declared Enemy of the Crown, either during the initiation or participation moment.
-Every Initiator is penalized with 150 Hostility Points with the Port Nation for their blockade attempt.
-Enemies of the Crown may initiate blockades against its nation ports at no hostility penalty. In case the initiator is an Enemy of the Crown AND the Blockade is Successful, the player who listed him as an Enemy of the Crown will lose 25% of his influence (note: this can only be the rightful King on the time of blockade initiation).
-Every participant, is penalized with 75 Hostility points on their participating moment.
-Every defender, is awarded with 75 Honor points with the Port's nation.
-If the blockade fails, every defender is awarded with influence points at the port. The number of points his receives, is his total damage dealt during the battle.

Treaties Role

Besides the role in Active Blockade Admirals list, Hostility Law can be extended to also include Hostility Penalty on Blockade against the target nation (btw, any value there can be 0, if the issuing nation does not want to penalize specific parts of it).

Or we could create No Blockade pacts, which could include tribute. Anyone violating such pact, could be named a Pirate by its nation.

Future Reference
-Specialization could allow some ships to keep their health bonus even outside the blockade.
-Nation that controls the port, loses influence (ie like as if 2 Conspiracies have been cast or more sophisticated)

Epilogue

This is a suggestion. All parts are under discussion. I might have missed parts - I will supply more details where needed. Please do not hesitate to ask or request more details.

Melvina .... read the very first line of the prologue....

[sXs]

"After taking into the consideration all recent developments, as well as the proposed developments at hand and after taking in mind War and Blockades idea by Haron and all the discussion afterwards, we have came up with a Ports Blockade suggestion.

[Most Lee Harmless]

Great, so we agree the risk is easily mitigated and therefore not an issue, except perhaps for some newer players who've yet to learn but then again, they will make those mistakes on the plunderboards where losing their fleets is even more likely so we can chalk it up as learning for them and move on.

Now a new problem then? Not having the ships prepared and ready. Well in that case it comes down to either A: change ones setup and adapt to new environments in order to be prepared for different circumstances if one wants to participate, or B: Stay the same, not be ready or able to participate fully, and let the rest of the players interested do so.

Not being prepared or getting short notice is hardly a design flaw in this suggested feature..

Then there is no problem, carry on.

PS : I'll store this comment here for future use :

'Told you so'.