The "Line of Battle"

[Sir Thalius Hayle]

Make the "Line of Battle" work as it did in reality.

Currently when fleets face off in battle, the ships go head to head one ship at a time. Each lead ship battles until it's hit points are gone, and then the surviving ship faces off with the next opponent in line.

The tactic of "the line" worked historically in such a way that each ship passed the opposing ships in a line, and each ship took fire from every ship in their opponent's line as the lines passed each other. Ships that survived then re-positioned themselves for another pass.

This made EVERY ship in the line an important one, as it had to take and give fire from and to every other ship in the opponent's line.

I would strongly desire to see the current battle mechanics changed to reflect this.

If battle in PG worked this way, that would allow us to make for some interesting battle dynamics with relatively few and historically accurate additions to ship tech, which I will address in a different post as I work on my "Wish List" according to the instructions laid out by CJ.

Respectfully submitted,

~TH~

[Stan Rogers]

I'd like to try it before committing to full time implementation. Interesting idea ! +1

[sXs]

This would also lead to some interesting fleet configurations.

[DezNutz]

+1

Basically this:

Player A and Player B each with five ships.

Each round would be a volley of fire.

Round 1:

Ship 1A vs Ship 1B

Round 2:

Ship 1A vs Ship 2B
Ship 2A vs Ship 1B

Round 3:

Ship 1A vs Ship 3B
Ship 2A vs Ship 2B
Ship 3A vs Ship 1B

Round 4:

Ship 1A vs Ship 4B
Ship 2A vs Ship 3B
Ship 3A vs Ship 2B
Ship 4A vs Ship 1B

Round 5:

Ship 1A vs Ship 5B
Ship 2A vs Ship 4B
Ship 3A vs Ship 3B
Ship 4A vs Ship 2B
Ship 5A vs Ship 1B

Round 6:

Ship 1A vs Ship 1B
Ship 2A vs Ship 5B
Ship 3A vs Ship 4B
Ship 4A vs Ship 3B
Ship 5A vs Ship 2B


If a ship sinks they are eliminated from the cycle and it just goes to the next available ship. The cycle just keeps going until all ships of a player are "sunk".

[Most Lee Harmless]

The first flaw with this proposal is that it is not how such battles worked : the 'Ship of the Line' was so named because it was powerful enough to stand in the battle line and fight as suggested : but lesser ships did not. Indeed, It was common practice for SoTL's never to fire upon a frigate or less unless attacked first themselves : thus frigates could be present in such a battle but not engaged at all.

This form of battle suggested would never apply to any other type of war ship : Their battles were more of a hit and chase with manouvre and wind gauge the paramount methods of gaining an upper hand.

The second flaw is that 'Line of Battle' tactics suggested above are way off anyway : The key for any attacking admiral was to 'break the line' and bring superior force to bear on part of it only : for the defender, 'holding the line' was key and thus preventing piecemeal destruction of their forces.

The attacking admirals dream was to 'Cross the T', where he could sail his entire line across the front ( or rear) of the enemy line bringing all his firepower to bear upon the leading enemy ships, sinking or disabling them and receiving little return fire himself.

Nelson in particular, finessed this into the tactic of using 2 or more columns to break an enemy line into smaller pieces which could then be destroyed in turn. He effectively created several 'Crossing the T' and could thus rake both sides as the column broke through. This tactic was pure 'Ship of the line' as only they had sufficient trained crew to even attempt to fire from both sides at once.

It's worth doing some study on fleet tactics of the 'in-game' period : its far more complex than might otherwise appear to be the case.

[Haron]

While a change in combat mechanisms may sound interesting, I believe they would change very little. For instance, I am certain that this suggestion and the existing combat model would give the same outcome (the same winner) in at least 99% of all battles. If I am right in this, then why bother?

A single combat in this game is relatively simple. Not much tactics is necessary, although setting up your ship atts "correctly" helps a bit in close battles. The tactics are first needed on operations larger than a single combat. Like how you set up your fleets, what trade routes you use and so on. Or if you try to steal Big Ships. Or if you get involved in port or nation takeovers.

I think this is fine. The problem with introducing too much of a tactical element on each combat, is that only one side will be present. There will be one "active" and one "passive" side. Perhaps a more elaborate combat model could be set in place for future advanced mechanics, where a time and place for battle is set, so both sides will be active and control their armadas at the same time - more like a game of chess. It would be a completely different thing from the current game, though. I think there are several other features I'd rather see first.

[Sir Thalius Hayle]

There are flaws in my suggestion as Danik suggested, but then again there are many more flaws in the current system with regard to how battle played out. (Not a complaint, as it has worked well. Just an observation ) My suggestion was to move battle more toward what a battle would have looked like, and I can assure you that in naval engagements opponents did not line their ships up and then do battle one ship at a time. Some held strictly to the "line-head of battle" tactic, while others were more of melleeists. I can also assure you that if a frigate lined up against a SoTL, the SoTL would fire on it.

Add into the situation ship tech which would differ from one ship type to another (customizable by player), ship type attributes that could be customized at a port shipyard, different guns/ammo that a player could develop/customize to their ship types, and finally formations- add all of that together along with the suggested change in how ships approach each other in battle, and you will have some real options for battle strategy in an automated battle system. (I will address these other items separately on my wish list, most of which will be links to some other fantastic posts that have been made dealing with each of them).

As for when this should be implemented- It is one of the items on my "wish list". I have other things I would like to see first as well, but this is certainly one thing I would like to see in the game eventually. Protocol laid out by CJ is to discuss an idea first if it has not already been discussed, suggest next, then link to wish list item.

So here it is for discussion.

~TH~

[Sir Thalius Hayle]

While a change in combat mechanisms may sound interesting, I believe they would change very little. For instance, I am certain that this suggestion and the existing combat model would give the same outcome (the same winner) in at least 99% of all battles. If I am right in this, then why bother?

If all we did was change the current system to the one I suggested, then I would agree that the outcome would change little. Add in tech, ship stat, and equipment differences, and later on formations, (all of which I will deal with separate from this post), and the suggested battle mechanic gets interesting.

[Most Lee Harmless]

IF a frigate joined battle with a SotL, it would return fire, but convention was a SotL did not open fire on lesser ships : it may sound odd to our ears today, but it was the convention. Frigates could be at a battle between SotL's but, providing they did not engage, they would not be attacked or pursued : in one notable encounter, 3 French frigates did engage a lone British SoTL : they were well hammered for their troubles and proved the wisdom of the convention.

[Crackedcubes]

IF a frigate joined battle with a SotL, it would return fire, but convention was a SotL did not open fire on lesser ships : it may sound odd to our ears today, but it was the convention. Frigates could be at a battle between SotL's but, providing they did not engage, they would not be attacked or pursued : in one notable encounter, 3 French frigates did engage a lone British SoTL : they were well hammered for their troubles and proved the wisdom of the convention.

True...however, under the current combat system SoTLs do open fire on lesser ships.

Maybe the Simple answer is: the SoTL and MoW are strictly confined to fleets containing themselves only, thus allowing for "Line" combat. another layer could be added in tactics where pre-set manuevers are included to give the player the possibility of getting stern and Bow shots for extra damage.