Port Blockades (Large)

[Sebena]

Fleets are the major producers of wealth, in any way you look at it. Surely, voodoo can play a great role but it is fleets that rule the game. There are multiple examples that come to mind and out of which I want to use none; you should be in a position to know. If not, it is surely not up to me to to point out and even more so, not the right place to do so.

I see the second irony post about honor points, first was from Danik, second from Wolfie. This is counterproductive. If you want to say something, please do. If you want to be ironic, get out of this topic and open a new one. I won't moderate you. Don't derail this topic though.

No one is forced to do anything. I am giving examples of play. Everyone is free to choose his path.

As for the whole-merchant-profit discussion you do fail to spot the obvious. Here is in a nice example:

-Bob makes 30M a day with trading
-He runs only trade fleets, he does not even buy cannons
-One day, evil CJ and his crew introduce blockades.
-Before he can even blink his eye, his favored port is now blockaded by a band of Pirates!
-OMG! What a shame! I will depart in pride! Goodbye cruel Avonmora! Alas! All good things come to an end.

Yes, this could well be a good example. It's a possible scenario. It has happened already. A player was making this exact sum amount of coin a day when there was a glimse that someone might attack his fleets. He wrote me a message and told me he has not touched anyone. Thus, he will now leave the game. I fare welled him. I think this was the right move to do.

I would disagree with it. They played major role back in old days now they are not. They lost purpose of bringing wealth that day when Credit market was introduced. Lets set this example I am barista I make enough money to support myself and my family. True it is not big family me,gf and our two dogs. I earn enough to spend fair ammount on the game ( I did in the past) I can just sell all those credits therefore I have gold coins. I buy more credits buy voodoo and rest I sell again I made wealth already I made hundreds of millions in few clicks. I decide it would be amazing to mess with Kiribati. I have no ships no resources in warehouse so only 2 cards hurt me confuse and time spirals. Then I see blockades another way to mess with others I contact mercenaries pay them credits I buy MoW on ship market I start blockade they join me I pay PHX credits aswell to help me. We have blockade,nation and other players suffer. After blockade ends I have enough cards and credits to keep on doing what danik said using FDs and Hideouts. Where did I needed fleets to generate wealth. Why would someone defend aggainst our blockade they are risking everything while I risk nothing.

About my irony post it was sarcasam not irony. I made it only because feniks and shadowood jumped on it like it is sufficant reward for defenders. And I haven't adressed feniks post about some people doing this for infamy or fame I can't remember right what he wrote so I wanted to know did he and rest attacked bermuda and sstg for fame or because of profit?

If trend of allowing players who play like pirates all advantage with excuse that merchants earn millions trading then I am afraid I see manyplayers quitting game and entire trend of growing player base will go down the drain. I know reply to this will be we are seeing enormouse flow of new players but my question is what does that mean when those players will not stay. I can't wait to see how this game will survive when everyone goes on pirate or witch doctor style. I guess pirates will feed on new players making them quit the game only vecause they can.

[Most Lee Harmless]

-Bob makes 30M a day with trading
-He runs only trade fleets, he does not even buy cannons
-One day, evil CJ and his crew introduce blockades.
-Before he can even blink his eye, his favored port is now blockaded by a band of Pirates!
.

- Trader uses mass editing to terminate that route for all his fleets : uses 'new trade route' to create a safer route : adds all unemployed fleets to that route : makes cup of coffee : waits for blockade to be resolved : re-routes his fleets back again.

Yes, I was being ironic about Honor Points : I dont see what they will add to my game : I am already a Governor of my nation. What will they add to my rank there? They will be a pretty badge, no more. In the same tone, what will a few bits of fame do for me? The fame gain/loss system penalises me already for running less than 200 fleets : I gain it very slowly and lose it very fast. Before it was introduced I was pretty much top 10-20 for fame : since it was introduced, I scrape along in the second hundred... often lower if I have the temerity to attack anyone and suffer the consequent massive fame loss on return fire. Hey ho, it is what a it is, thus fame became pointless to me, certainly not worth chasing, and Honor will be the same. The 'improvement' made Fame meaningless, for if it still meant anything, I would never attack for fear of losing some. The acquisition of either fame or honor will not be any reason to devote assets and resources to defending a blockade, that's for sure. So, I ask, whats my motive for risking anything more than a howker fleet in a blockade? Losing influence in that port? Okay, do that, then influence joins fame and honor as being very difficult or expensive to acquire, way too easy to lose and thus.. pointless to fret over. For having it invites losing it, and not having it means not having to keep paying to keep it.

You know, the instant gratification attackers love shooting fish in a barrel : but we players aint fish, we have to choose to jump in the barrel. threatening us with even bigger losses if we dont jump into it wont encourage many volunteers. We will just walk away from the barrel and what will be left? An empty barrel.

[Captain Jack]

Danik, my example is real. The player instead of doing what you proposed,for example, he quit. The amazing part is that he had no direct attack on him. True story.

I see Honor points in this perspective:
-They will give an extra way to change nationalities.
-They will reflect the contribution one has made to his country.
-They will allow the fair usage of Hostility law. For example, when prominent members have many honor points each, then the country can afford a strict Hostility law as the Honor points will act as a buffer on the Hostility penalties that they may occur. Specifically this will be extremely useful when you want to attack someone who is trying a civil war: Right now you have to use a card for this. With Honor points, the defender has the upper hand which is only fair.

Regarding fame, whether you like it or not, is it fair or not? What do you say?

Talk about yourself then, will you be pulling a few extra fleets for Blockades or not? What messes with your strategy?

[Captain Jack]

Wolfie, this is a feature for seasoned players. For the veterans. Newcomers might participate or might get interest out of this but this is not something built for them. There are other things that would help them more (ie interface upgrade). This feature is here to battle repetitiveness and create new challenges for all.

[DezNutz]

Since you mentioned guilds and diplomacy where were those in recent happenings with Bermuda? Everything here goes back to old problem voodoo cards determine everything. We all can lie to us and say ships are crucial part of the game. That is amazing lie. As far as I know I didn't use ships to take goroum from USA or TLT when he took caspian. Shadowood didn't took neapolis and kanoni because ships he took it because cards. So lets stop making lies and work on crucial problems. Why would I care if goroum or caspian is blocked? Screw it I will just reroute. But if I would be able to earn money and make other lose ships I will be first on the line defending only because of pleasure of saying in your face... You mentioned other fractions only whom would be willing to defend port is mercenaries for right price. USA had good allies and yet noone came to rescue them from recent war. Right now there is civil war in USA and yet neither of those fractions run and aid them. So expecting others to fight someones battles is stupid. Why would I care about happenings in any other nation, guild? I will care about happenings but not because I want to help I simply seek profit. If you offer equal reward like danik proposed you will get what you are saying that is going to happen now.

I wouldn't call it a civil war, more of just a treasury raid. Support during the war (not the "civil war") was offered but was conditional on certain points being attained. The USA's ability to meet those fell short, mostly due to lack of active players. Shit happens, not the first time a nation has fallen from the map, won't be the last. The USA is here to stay, we may not have a port right now and our treasury may have taken a hit, but that didn't stop us before and it won't stop us now.

Sorry for going off topic a little bit.

I completely agree with you and Danik's points, Wolfie.

Spoiler: show

Fleets are the major producers of wealth, in any way you look at it. Surely, voodoo can play a great role but it is fleets that rule the game. There are multiple examples that come to mind and out of which I want to use none; you should be in a position to know. If not, it is surely not up to me to to point out and even more so, not the right place to do so.

I see the second irony post about honor points, first was from Danik, second from Wolfie. This is counterproductive. If you want to say something, please do. If you want to be ironic, get out of this topic and open a new one. I won't moderate you. Don't derail this topic though.

No one is forced to do anything. I am giving examples of play. Everyone is free to choose his path.

As for the whole-merchant-profit discussion you do fail to spot the obvious. Just extract it from my example:

-Bob makes 30M a day with trading
-He runs only trade fleets, he does not even buy cannons
-One day, evil CJ and his crew introduce blockades.
-Before he can even blink his eye, his favored port is now blockaded by a band of Pirates!
-"OMG! What a shame! I will depart in pride! Goodbye cruel Avonmora!" says Bob, absolutely stunned. Alas! All good things come to an end.

Yes, this could well be a good example. It's a possible scenario. It has happened already. A player was making this exact sum amount of coin a day when there was a glimse that someone might attack his fleets. He wrote me a message and told me he has not touched anyone. Thus, he will now be leaving the game. I fare welled him.

Yes, fleets and trade are the a great creator of wealth. However, only a complete idiot would base their entire profit base on a single trade route or port. A smart trader spread loads their profits over multiple routes and ports. While doing so limits the total potential income, it prevents a single port blockade or trade route closure from eliminating a player's profits. Ports have been "blockaded" in the past. Players either ignored the blockade and just took the hit at the port, or they paused/altered their routes until the blockade ended. If a player quits the game over something that can be altered with ease, then I guess this game wasn't for him.

I am sorry to say this but Honor points would not be enough reward for a barrage of blockades. There have been times when certain guilds banded together for a piracy purpose. Same guilds can easily initiate multi port blockade at the same time. With on nation defending multiple, the nation will be drained too quickly.

Something like blockades should be limited to only 1 port against the holding nation and extensions should not be feasible for past 2 or 3 times with the duration between the blockades increasing the more blockades are happening.

Honor points are part of the rewards. Blockades will mainly simulate a real case scenario.

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Let's go back in real time and suppose you are the Governor of Tortuga...

A Spanish Armada is about to appear, ready to blockade your port. Reports coming from everywhere mention that the initiator will be Kangaroo "The Australian" as they call him. You have never met him but his nickname tests your nerves... "What an Australian is...", you wonder. Your faithful quartermaster informs you that most probably your adversary will be sailing in his Flagship, the beautiful Man 'o War called "Aussies Pride". All these weird new words that the enemy brings along are equally bothersome.

Reading through the report, you also see that there are only a few fleets on their way here. "But more may appear later...", your quartermaster adds.

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I think the story is good and if you would like, you could try role playing this further. Kangaroo might also want to participate as the other end. Remember, you are the Governor of Tortuga, let's say this is an English port (like it used to be) so you are an English Governor of the all mighty British Empire.

Tortuga is a very important military port while trading flourishes here.

What do you do?

Levi his MoW a couple of times.

[Captain Jack]

Levi his MoW a couple of times.

There is some fighting spirit, right here.

[Sebena]

Wolfie, this is a feature for seasoned players. For the veterans. Newcomers might participate or might get interest out of this but this is not something built for them. There are other things that would help them more (ie interface upgrade). This feature is here to battle repetitiveness and create new challenges for all.

I know that but why would seasoned player like Danik, SHM, PHX or even me(altough I don't consider myself seasoned player) defend port when they have 0 reward and hell of a lot cost. Bringing big guns in the blockade risking gold coins and everything on return fire after blockade? I know myself wouldn't bother about it if I can't make huge damage to opponent or if I don't have reward that makes me drool and ichy to win. There was talk about influence if that is another way for someone to overtake port then I will just give up on my ports and sail without them. Fame lose I don't see any benefit from it expect few undercover actions but agin I can always steal fame from inactives or farm NPC for it. Honor points I don't see any use of them beyond having strick hostility law. Civil war will die in a way which he exists now once when nations gets upgrade and once when nation will be able to decide about immigration policy and if my memory serves me it is one issue that is planned for fixing in the future...

[Most Lee Harmless]

Danik, my example is real. The player instead of doing what you proposed,for example, he quit. The amazing part is that he had no direct attack on him. True story.

I see Honor points in this perspective:
-They will give an extra way to change nationalities.
-They will reflect the contribution one has made to his country.
-They will allow the fair usage of Hostility law. For example, when prominent members have many honor points each, then the country can afford a strict Hostility law as the Honor points will act as a buffer on the Hostility penalties that they may occur. Specifically this will be extremely useful when you want to attack someone who is trying a civil war: Right now you have to use a card for this. With Honor points, the defender has the upper hand which is only fair.

Regarding fame, whether you like it or not, is it fair or not? What do you say?

Talk about yourself then, will you be pulling a few extra fleets for Blockades or not? What messes with your strategy?

I dont know the player you speak of, their motives are theirs : I aint gonna justify them, I dont know what they were. For all we know their dog had just died and they were very depressed.

Again, is the current fame model 'Fair' ? : I dont care anymore, I pay little attention to it : it certainly dont motivate me : I spoke against it, it got implemented, tough, I move on and deal with it. But I dont pretend it works for me just because you or others think it is 'fair'. I feel it penalises me for not doing what you think everyone should do. i.e. have 200 ships. I wont have 200 ships for my own reasons, so I suffer the penalty. Thats my choice, I dont have to like it though.

Will I put any of my fleets in danger over a blockade : probably not : there is certainly no return on risk in defending, as it stands : there is very little return on risk when attacking too, for most traders will just sit it out and go elsewhere in the interim. So, the reasons for doing so become ones of ego and grand-standing, what I mostly refer to as 'wagging' : sorry, CJ, I'm 60 : I got bored with such juvenile displays back when I was 20. So, that's no motive either.

My strategy is simple, and always has been : maximum return for minimum effort : I get the same income from 10 fleets as most get from 20 : my war fleets have long had a good record for outfighting bigger ships : I try not to throw hard-earned assets away for no gain : and if the odds get fixed against you, dont expect to win anything.

[Captain Jack]

Why do you see the odds fixed? I see two buffs for attackers:
1)They get to know when the attack will be
2)They get the buff to be able to add ships up to the last moment.

The 1) can be countered; defenders need to prepare. But let's accept this as a buff.
The 2) can be changed; we can equally stop both from putting fleets at the same time (till 4 hours before battle ends).

What else is one sided or fixed. Let's stick to this because I really want to understand what you are trying to tell but I am failing so far and I need your help to understand.

[Vane]

If I understand right, Woflie and Danik want to see "profit" made by the defenders for being successful.

Defenders already enjoy the profit every day they own the port. If they want to keep enjoying it, they'll make the effort to do so. Their is little to no profit in most wars, and defenders even less. Defending is just that, "Defend" and "Keep" what is yours. It has motive in preventing loss.

Attacking is to take, hence the profit. Want to earn some, while your enemies have a blockade attempt running, instead of defending go start a blockade in their port or ports and take from them.


I agree the small loss on port income from trade is not a high enough motivation to defend in order to keep, so maybe some better "incentive" but profit for defending? That's ridiculous.