Naval Combat Strike!!

[Vane]

Success!

Thanks guys

[DezNutz]

I agree that Combat is boring, but then you don't really have to by doing what most do and just throw voodoo back and forth and then watch each other get plundered. I think Voodoo killed combat tactics.

[Stan Rogers]

Voodoo didn't really kill combat tactics. Combat tactics have always been limited to ship attribute stack and fleet/ship placement stacking.
There are only so many combinations to work with.
I too would really like to see more variables in the ship vs ship battles such as wind speed and directions, different types of cannon projectile loads, maybe different powder recipe's etc.
The heart of the game should revolve around the ship, not the voodoo IMO

[Most Lee Harmless]

The role of voodoo is, when used best, to bring ships to battle : to create the conditions in which one side feel they can defeat the other and gain shiny shiny prizes. But, as Stan points out, once you know the 'recipe' for getting the best out of your fleets, it can become a stale experience with too few variables to unexpectedly tip the scales towards a shock result.
Given that, its a bit daft to expect folk to want to fight battles they dont feel they can win just to keep the thrill-athon running. None of us intend, or plan, to lose when we hit the 'Assault' button but we do take a chance on what can seem a close call when comparing fleets. the thrill is in edging the other by clever stacking and placement.
There is no real thrill in using krakens and fireships to zero the other fleet first : then any fool with a crappy sloop can win a battle. Buts thats enough for some.

[Maha]

i arrived here when voodoo was well esthablished, so i cannot compare with the non voodoo game.
strategic means that you move with a plan in mind, a plan that often consist of multiple parts and is executed over a period of time. tactical is using a specific -often well known- plan to gain a (short term) advantage. using voodoo has become a tactic with little strategy behind it.

most of the real strategies in this game are of defensive nature imo. it is how players has set up their fleets and chosen their voodoo to minimize losses. they combine several known tactics like the use of tails, choice of fleet composition, amount of gc on hand and their flavor of protective voodoo and combine it to their advance. some ad standard retaliation to it as well.

most have a 'get rich'strategy that drives their actions; they trade, smith and rake nation stipends or whatever plan they came up with.

the problem with good strategies is that they become known and counter strategies become known and used as well. there is a reason why the majority of SOL's and MoW's are stolen from new players.

Fleet to fleet battle is quite straight forward; normally the outcome is known before shot are fired. unless you have a specific goal (like Shadowood and his greed for Mow's) no real strategy is needed. Capital ship stealing is one of the few battle areas where strategy is needed, but it's so well known that it has almost moved to the tactical level. still i find most game satisfaction in breaking thru defenses and getting capital ships while making a profit out of it. since we learn from our failure are most SOL's safe behind there defenses and only vulnerable when a mistake is made. (either by accident or by flaw in the defensive strategy)

the flagship feature will not change this. multiplayer battles will provide more possibilities, from exploiting the weakest link to use decoys and other tactics. for that reason i hope to see port battles developed as a multiplayer feature; guild vs port or nation vs port.

fleet battles as they are now, even with HN and FJJ in play have a limited effect. it's hard to extrapolate from one series of battles to the next. at least not with profit in mind. and for the moment is profit the ultimate goal in the game. our actions are driven to maximize profit in a fun way. a lot of coins come from ports, but those cannot be gained by fleet attacks. warehouses contain valuable goods, out of reach of a pirates gun. banks ditto.
ships are needed for trade and other peaceful and profitable activities, battles are not needed. because there are plenty supplies there is no need to compete and war over those supplies. When scarcity hits Avonmora than traders need to compete, when developed properly they will need ships to do so. that puts them to the dilemma to get a piece of the supply pie without becoming a target.


it is difficult to 'just add' strategy to the game, providing options and choices is the best way to do it. hence my proposals to change the settings on a ship (faster but less cargo etc) or the way to attack and defend.

right now the options are limited and worn out, at least for ship fighting

[Sir Henry Morgan]

I agree with much that has been brought to bear here - and I see there is a balance problem; voodoo chest strategies vs. naval ship strategies.

Right now, it is possible to build up one's enterprise where a ship is not even necessary to operate in the game. One can buy and sell credits, voodoo cards and cast voodoo curses. Not a popular strategy, but doable.

As a seafaring game, voodoo cards need to work more toward the prime feature of the game - seafaring strategies and strategies that depend upon seafaring tactics. Right now, it is cast a card and it is done! If voodoo worked more to enhance the naval aspects rather than ports, populations, etc., it would work toward correcting this balance.

Take population, for example. Population can be added or subtracted by use of ships or voodoo, but it is quite evident that voodoo cards is the most efficient and effective means to increase or decrease as it is cast directly upon the port in question. Boom,in a matter of minutes, populations can explode. It has occurred and now Avonmora has a population boom.

However, if Transport Immigrants and Black Death were cast upon fleets or individuals rather than on ports? Transport Immigrants could add the number one could place on a ship, while Black Death would reduce the number one could place on a ship?

Take influence - Influence is currently purchased with gold coin, then enhanced with the hideout, but after a certain level, Charity Donations become the way to grow one's influence. Propaganda and Conspiracies reduce it all, just pick a port. Ships, fleets, trade have no influence upon this feature.

As all of has discovered, in order to see what is each port, one must either have a fleet in the port or a warehouse. Should this concept be carried over to voodoo curses as well?

For instance:

Official List of Demands. All a player has to do is throw 21 curses and hit 21 ports. What if a fleet was required to be in the port in question?
Antagonize: Just cast it - hits all ports. What if a fleet were required to be in each port for it to have a total affect?

An active fleet needs to be active to cast a voodoo curse, i.e., to tap the power of the sea. Leviathans, Disfavor - all curses should be sea related in a sea-faring game.

This reduces the power of voodoo and increase the importance of at least putting a hower in the fleet.

There is no "gallows feature" or "prison feature" in the game - I don't think it is too much to expect to be sidelined if you don't have any ships.

[Stan Rogers]

What the ship portion needs is a new battle engine with new abilities and modifiers coded in.

Probably the hardest part of this is defining what is needed now and in the future.

Perhaps more attributes to be assigned ( I like the attributes feature) More variable ship features.
Shoals and reefs to run aground on or water depth /keel clearances affecting battle.

Chance engagements or battles in the open sea's as well as in ports. Trade currents affecting fleet speeds between ports.
I am sure we could come up with a comprehensive list of things that would define what a new battle engine could include and then the devs know what they have to do.

[Mack]

I agree with much that has been brought to bear here - and I see there is a balance problem; voodoo chest strategies vs. naval ship strategies.

Right now, it is possible to build up one's enterprise where a ship is not even necessary to operate in the game. One can buy and sell credits, voodoo cards and cast voodoo curses. Not a popular strategy, but doable.

As a seafaring game, voodoo cards need to work more toward the prime feature of the game - seafaring strategies and strategies that depend upon seafaring tactics. Right now, it is cast a card and it is done! If voodoo worked more to enhance the naval aspects rather than ports, populations, etc., it would work toward correcting this balance.

Take population, for example. Population can be added or subtracted by use of ships or voodoo, but it is quite evident that voodoo cards is the most efficient and effective means to increase or decrease as it is cast directly upon the port in question. Boom,in a matter of minutes, populations can explode. It has occurred and now Avonmora has a population boom.

However, if Transport Immigrants and Black Death were cast upon fleets or individuals rather than on ports? Transport Immigrants could add the number one could place on a ship, while Black Death would reduce the number one could place on a ship?

Take influence - Influence is currently purchased with gold coin, then enhanced with the hideout, but after a certain level, Charity Donations become the way to grow one's influence. Propaganda and Conspiracies reduce it all, just pick a port. Ships, fleets, trade have no influence upon this feature.

As all of has discovered, in order to see what is each port, one must either have a fleet in the port or a warehouse. Should this concept be carried over to voodoo curses as well?

For instance:

Official List of Demands. All a player has to do is throw 21 curses and hit 21 ports. What if a fleet was required to be in the port in question?
Antagonize: Just cast it - hits all ports. What if a fleet were required to be in each port for it to have a total affect?

An active fleet needs to be active to cast a voodoo curse, i.e., to tap the power of the sea. Leviathans, Disfavor - all curses should be sea related in a sea-faring game.

This reduces the power of voodoo and increase the importance of at least putting a hower in the fleet.

There is no "gallows feature" or "prison feature" in the game - I don't think it is too much to expect to be sidelined if you don't have any ships.

I like these ideas, gives you the feeling youre really part of the voodoo casting.

[Qwerty00172]

I think the game is plenty challenging enough for the newer players developing their fleets and game style. But it can get a bit stale for the more experienced bigger players. In keeping with the naval combat theme (rather than straying too far toward farming/trading), what I'd like to see is more nation vs nation combat for bigger scale warfare for bigger players.

I've seen posts before about port defences such as coastal gun batteries. I like that idea. They could be bigger guns dealing more damage than cannons, but fewer in number than the total ships cannons opposed to them.

On the ship side of the contest, I'd like to see the ability for a nation to assemble an armada to attack other ports. The armada would comprise no more than one fleet contributed per nation member (perhaps two for the highest ranks). That is, a strong nation could send a strong armada and there is an added incentive to attract (and keep) active nation members. Armada make up should include attack fleets, but also supply fleets to maintain food and rum for the fleet, but also wood, iron, cotton and gold to establish the nation in the new port. Not enough of any of these? The port takeover fails.

To prevent a big nation just taking over the map, the members of that nation should have to contribute meaningfully to holding the ports. The more ports held, the more effort in resources required to hold them, maybe even requiring diversion of some trading fleets to keep the port supplied above a certain level of non-default production resources in nation member held warehouses.
E.g. Not enough food?- Famine and declining population. Not enough iron?- The coastal batteries run out of cannonballs. Not enough wood?- Shipwrights cant repair ships. Keeping the coastal batteries in good repair during and after barrages with naval armadas should be a big part of it. The mechanism should require commitment of fleets and resources from a very large proportion of a nations members or it fails. Maybe the voting method could somehow be adapted.

And lets not forget the committed pirates, the hyenas of the seas. They could hold a port if they work together and stay committed, but the expanding requirement for resources would probably mean they dont chase more than that. Here is where I see something for them-
Ships that are part of an armada can't be fully repaired while at sea. Until they are docked, if they take a coastal battery hit they remain damaged in a weakened state open to pirate attacks.

I know this is very sketchy. But I think a nation port defence vs attacking nation armada in some form would be interesting for bigger players and stick closer to the theme of the game than some other directions it could go. A successful nation would need to attract and keep active players if it wants to keep holding ports. It would need also need committment in ships and resources from a majority of its members.

[Qwerty00172]

As an afterthought, defensive armadas could also be postioned at ports in a similar manner to fishing fleets, and somehow employed as part of the port defences