Population Control proposed Fix

[Shadowood]

Captain Jack,

I suggested a metric a while back that could work here. It is rough and needs some fine tuning, but could something like this work?

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3503&p=48936&hilit=sim+city#p48936

Basically a nation could adjust its own NPC Tax Code (0gc-20gc, voted into law). That tax code affects population growth or loss.

With the new "re-balance" coming, perhaps that NPC Tax code could be 10gc - 30 gc for this suggestion.

Just a thought.

[Sir Henry Morgan]

I am simply putting this out as a thought - without much follow thru in it's ramifications.

Instead of thinking of population per port, what if it was more in terms of total population for Avonmora?

A standard daily population increase would work across the entire map. More and more citizens would generate daily.

Natural disasters affecting population would affect the port population based on density, ie, a port with X% of Avonmora's total population would recieve X% of the disaster consequence.

TIs & BDs could be weakened and capped. If TI's are used, the population has to come from somewhere, ie, either another port or from every other port in Avonmora. It would technically be possible to move the entire popularion of Avonmora to one port....hmmmm.

It may be more prudent to eliminate these cards and enhance transport immigrants, allowing natural disasters to be game generated rather than player generated.

Population gained by influence could be negated, however could raise the tax paying citizens hto a max of 90% (just a suggestion). This effect could decrease as influence decreases.

[sXs]

I am simply putting this out as a thought - without much follow thru in it's ramifications.

Instead of thinking of population per port, what if it was more in terms of total population for Avonmora?

A standard daily population increase would work across the entire map. More and more citizens would generate daily.

Natural disasters affecting population would affect the port population based on density, ie, a port with X% of Avonmora's total population would recieve X% of the disaster consequence.

TIs & BDs could be weakened and capped. If TI's are used, the population has to come from somewhere, ie, either another port or from every other port in Avonmora. It would technically be possible to move the entire popularion of Avonmora to one port....hmmmm.

It may be more prudent to eliminate these cards and enhance transport immigrants, allowing natural disasters to be game generated rather than player generated.


Population gained by influence could be negated, however could raise the tax paying citizens hto a max of 90% (just a suggestion). This effect could decrease as influence decreases.

I like the idea of reset and eliminate the cards. Tie population to some other matrix. Make it more of a strategy play than simply casting a card. Instead of dampening port and nation play, this would enhance it.

[Admiral Nelson]

Proposed Suggestion:
==================
-Limit max population of each port from 2.1B to 500M
-Divide equally the population of each port to the new figures (all current port populations will be divided by 4.3)
-Reduce number of immigrants that can be transported by ships, to 0.5 per crate (from 2).
-Tax income per NPC paying citizen will grow from 10gc to 20gc.


This fix will be our temporary solution till we are able to come up with a more sophisticated system. It deals directly with the 2 highest problems we can currently spot:
1)Too high returns in coin which is not balanced with all other income sources.
2)It deals with the unrealistically high numbers of population in each port.

It will affect negatively all players but equally.

Feel free to give us your feedback to this.

-1.

[Captain Jack]

Let me share some numbers:
You need about 50 Transport Immigrants to get a port from 1.2B to 2.1B
50 Donations, cost 67.5M
The payout from these NEW immigrants is 14.8M per day. Which means that in 5 days time, you already made a profit out of these.

Let's see it in another way. The port with the lowest population right now is Kanoni with 177M. That's the worst port to invest someone right now. Let's see the numbers of it though:
-You will need about 254 TIs to get this port to 2.1B
-254 TIs cost 342M
-The payout will be +31M per day.
-You will get your money back in 31 days. And that's THE WORSE kind of investment right now. Obviously, there are far better options (ie caspian, with only 7 days ROI)

Let's see other investment options:
-Piracy tech: 173M, you need about 85 days to complete and investment comes back in a long time after much effort. (Without counting hideout/academy costs).
-200 Ships fleet, costs about 45M to buy on the market and will pay itself back in about 37.5 days. If you add the officers cost, you are looking at another 105M in cost and 125 days ROI.
-Goldsmith, requires about 2.1B to build, several months and with current rates, it will take a long time to pay itself back.
-Let's not speak about warehouses ROI.

Want more? Check these:
http://s2.piratesglory.com/hideout_costs.php
http://s2.piratesglory.com/tech_costs.php

The population issue was well known. This is not the first time population spirals out of control. This is the first time that population spiral remains intact. Somehow, our best interests remain to keep this game balanced.

For those feeling that their investment is abruptly brought to an end, the answer is that if you have been getting payments from your nation for at least a month or got payments from a nation during your game life for at least a month, then the odds are that you have already got your investment back many times. If you do not believe us, then perhaps you should be fully aware that population is one of the things in the game that carry out the investment of other players, players who have been playing from the start of the game.

We are not interested to keep your investment equally strong in the expense of all the other game features; please excuse us for this in case you cannot understand us.

For those fearing that the new metrics are too low, please read the new data at the worst case scenario (Kanoni).
-You will need to get 177M to 500M. That's about 108 TIs or 145M (at current TI price as I have read that you expect their price to drop)
-The extra payout will be 5.3M a day.
-You will get your money back in 27 days.
-Wait, what? Sooner? So why all the fuss?

Well, it's one thing filling your pocket with about 16.5 a day and another with 33M a day. The difference is chaotic. At 21 ports, you are looking at 350M per day (at 125 days, they will double current gc in circulation). But remember, this is just the temporal fix. The full plan will address every issue.

[Captain Jack]

After much consideration and research, we have came up with new numbers that solve more than the original problem.

1)The original problem is solved by halving the income from tax coming from npc citizens. More tweaking may be needed here in the future.
2)The huge numbers issue is solved by capping port max to 210M instead.
3)The Transport Immigrants through fleets feature is improve by doubling its returns.
4)The analogical effect applied to everyone in the same time, secures a smooth transition to the new system.

The proposal will remain here for a few hours to receive your feedback. If no critical issues are raised, we will implement these later today.

[Meliva]

So what will happen to all the ports with more then 210M citizens? will the citizens just disappear when implemented? and will there be no compensation for all the citizens who are eliminated for those ports?

My only real complaint is halving the income tax. If the population cap is being greatly reduced I see reducing the income as just unfair. I would suggest that instead we later make npc tax a law that is revisable by the nation, and depending on the amount affects port growth, but that's an issue for another topic. For now i believe the standard 10 is fine.

[Poppy]

As you have states the knowledge of the now the so called flawed algorithms that determine both population growth and tax income received from population where well known to the admin a long time ago. The calculations introduced here do not explain why historical population growth where took down but it is well known fact that Black Death naturally happen due to both ill will and natural causes (ranking missions). that fact made population profiting an extremely risky and expensive operation and due to that reason not many have tried and only one succeeded.

The fact that current population growth did succeed was achieved due to careful planing, long term resource gathering and a relative political stability (which was also achieved through hard work and investment).

Urgent changes that react to the current statues will be viewed by all as an attempt against the right of intelligent people to utilize their brain, taking risk and working their best well within the rules.

I suggest the changes that where needed 2 years ago as much as they are needed today will be decided upon in consultation and agreement with the people effected by them and with due compensation that will cure not only damages but also entrepreneurship and risk taking. as these should be viewed upon as most positive traits and should not be discourage.

PP

[Admiral Nelson]

Thats right Poppy you tell him!

[Captain Jack]

So what will happen to all the ports with more then 210M citizens? will the citizens just disappear when implemented? and will there be no compensation for all the citizens who are eliminated for those ports?

My only real complaint is halving the income tax. If the population cap is being greatly reduced I see reducing the income as just unfair. I would suggest that instead we later make npc tax a law that is revisable by the nation, and depending on the amount affects port growth, but that's an issue for another topic. For now i believe the standard 10 is fine.

A port with 2.1B currently produces, roughly, about 33M in NPC tax. The same port, with the proposed changed, will see its population changed to 210M instead and it will produce roughly 16.5M in NPC tax.