Down with aristocracy

[Most Lee Harmless]

It has been suggested that I may have been less than diplomatic in the above post : thats why Stan does the talking. However, I am available to deputise should my nation feel it has gone beyond all hope of resolution and its time to just throw dung at each other. In a respectful manner, of course, we are not savages!

[Big Brother]

I have read all of the posts in this thread and have this for you all.

Stan, you seem to misunderstand. I wanted a better Spain at one time, I worked towards that, fought for it, bled for it, and spent time on it. I got nothing for it. You speak of the council disagreeing with me on several points. No, it was just you as I recall. You seem to have a personal problem with me. As if has been said, Lodswe and Jim don't talk much .

We want to talk about dominance, power, and politics..

Spain has remained a dominant nation for years, and has staunchly refused to allow any nation to take what is theirs, even if the country who takes it wants nothing else.

Isle of Man, Egypt, Wales, all have fought against Spain before, and have done nothing but irritate the aristocracy.

I fight not for respect, gold, honor, or glory. I simply fight to show Avonmora that I will not stand by idly while a super dominant class of merchantmen continue to deny newer players newer countries and opportunity to grow.

So you want war, eh? You'll get it if you want, but it won't be war like you've ever seen. It'll be a Russian war. I will not stop harassing your trade fleets, I will not stop harassing your citizenry.

Until you see the reason why people fight for an idea, and see that you need to become more negotiable, i will not stop the onslaught.

[Admiral Nelson]

Seem to be a lot of I's...

As I recall, Dos once showed me a few threads where you demanded things but did not act upon them... Nor did they give you what you want, they merely laughed.

[Big Brother]

John, as a pirate war is good for you.

And I never act unless I am sure I want to.

I put a very different front up from who I really am.

[Most Lee Harmless]

What a load of old flannel, Ivan : name one other country which has given away over a dozen ports : come on : name it : you cant because there is none : at one point Spain controlled 18 ports : now it voluntarily has 5, but, apparently, is still too many for you, except when you were in Spain, when it was not enough. You seem to argue that Spain should prove its non-belligerent nature by giving you all it has left to somehow apologise for not kissing your arse when you demanded to be in charge. Respect? you talk of respect and what respect did you ever show? Just turned up and well, you knew far better how things should be run and look, you spent some coin and that gave you the right to make the decisions? What of those who had worked and fought for years to build Spain? No respect given to them by you, or all the other whiners who think ports should be given to them cos, you know, you deserve them. Spain was built with billions of hard-earned coin spent by folk who asked for nothing back : you spent a few hundred million and thought what? That made you superior to them? So, whats this grand idea you speak of? Let's see : give me what I want or I'll stamp my feet and scream loudly 'It just not fair!' Go boil your head.

[Most Lee Harmless]

It has been suggested the above post is not very diplomatic : I agree.

[Big Brother]

I am more than happy to earn my keep.

When I earned the right to call my self Spanish, and only asked the proper accords I was met with dissent.

I was the third most influential person in Spain for nigh a year, yet I was never allowed into the council with Jim, Lodswe and Stan Rogers, who clearly did not work for the honor. I had nearly 10 million more influence than he did. All of it grinded, none bought.

You want to say I show no respect, you must earn it first.

A title can be given, a title can be taken. But it's never earned in Spain, my efforts prove that.

I pride myself on my ability to give what's earned. You want to receive something, You have to earn it.

I earned it, but did not recieve

[Most Lee Harmless]

Well, stamp your feet, throw your toys out the pram and demand all that you feel is rightfully yours. But dont paint it as honorable or principled : you want a port to fit your notion of your own standing. You think one of Spains ports fits the bill. That dont make it rightfully yours or oblige them to hand it over and apologise for keeping you waiting. Now, go boil your head.

[DezNutz]

I am more than happy to earn my keep.

When I earned the right to call my self Spanish, and only asked the proper accords I was met with dissent.

I was the third most influential person in Spain for nigh a year, yet I was never allowed into the council with Jim, Lodswe and Stan Rogers, who clearly did not work for the honor. I had nearly 10 million more influence than he did. All of it grinded, none bought.

You want to say I show no respect, you must earn it first.

A title can be given, a title can be taken. But it's never earned in Spain, my efforts prove that.

I pride myself on my ability to give what's earned. You want to receive something, You have to earn it.

I earned it, but did not recieve

Do you have this saved in a text file on your computer? I am 100% certain that you wrote this exact quote previously in a separate thread on the forums where you were having a dispute with, lo and behold, Stan Rogers.

Don't take this personally, but you seem to be holding a massive grudge. Did their approval and acceptance of you mean that much? Did you need to receive something for all the work you did? Democracy in action didn't work out for you? What did you expect of them, to stand there in aw because you held the 3rd most influence? Did you expect those with less influence to just cower and follow your ideas because you held that much influence?

As you said, titles are given (by the game). Anyone can achieve a title if they work on it, but that doesn't automatically entitle you to much more than voting power on game votable decisions. If you are working to actually run a nation, the in game titles are just a reference point. I'm sure that Spain has a core group of players that are part of the in game council, that also work outside of the normal game parameters to discuss national direction. You can't have a working "government" if you solely followed the in game mechanics, as leadership could be toppled and changed very easily. You would have no stability (which is a topic for another time). The in game council allows those outside of the core group a more active voice in the nation's direction. The Democratic Process so to speak. Each nation's core group and how it functions is different as the internal rules that each group sets are different in how they make decisions, set goals, and ensure stability.

[Stan Rogers]

I am more than happy to earn my keep.

When I earned the right to call my self Spanish, and only asked the proper accords I was met with dissent.

I was the third most influential person in Spain for nigh a year, yet I was never allowed into the council with Jim, Lodswe and Stan Rogers, who clearly did not work for the honor. I had nearly 10 million more influence than he did. All of it grinded, none bought.

You want to say I show no respect, you must earn it first.

A title can be given, a title can be taken. But it's never earned in Spain, my efforts prove that.

I pride myself on my ability to give what's earned. You want to receive something, You have to earn it.

I earned it, but did not recieve

What you earned in Spain was a voice to express your approval or dissent. Nothing more, nothing less.
You were one of many. When other council did not whole heartily endorse your idea, what do you do ?
Go off and attempt to do it anyway in a complete lack of respect for your fellow councilors.
Now you whine and snivel because the golden crown was not laid at your feet and all has not bowed down to you.

Maybe that is the way of the corrupt rule of Russia but not in Spain. I can go back through the forum and PM's that show without a doubt this has been your method of operation but I don't have to. It would be too much work just to prove something anyone who knows you, already knows.

You say Spain wants war and Russia is willing to sacrifice itself to the end in a Russian type war.
Again, in your twisted mind, you see things not as they are but as how you would like them to be. Somehow you forget in less than 24 hrs that it was Russia that attacked Spain and not the other way around.

You cannot provide one example where Spain has initiated a war without being provoked beforehand.
I, on the other hand can provide more than one example where you directly went against council decisions regarding direction of the nation.
You want to play in Spain's sandbox, follow the rules or move on but you are not taking the sandbox with you.

If you feel the need to defecate in the sandbox after the fact, be prepared to have it thrown back at you.