Market/Gold Bar Fees changes

[Vane]

I cant see a solution to the problem : currently, the average sale price means you need a level 12 GS just to break even on bar making costs, never repay your construction costs. But the 8 levels above that give a massive increase in profit per bar per level ; so the high level smiths will just make more if prices go higher. But how newer players will feel it worthwhile to build 12 levels of GS and still make no profits is beyond me.

wait till the price drops to 500 gc. than leveling up is a quarter of what the old players paid.

Minimum bar making cost at lvl20 : you would lose over 1000gc every bar you sold at that price! And its not just the bars needed to level-up : there is a considerable billion or two in gc needed as well. Its a tricky balance to attain and keep : enough profit to reward the massive investment of thsoe already in the market.. enough margins to encourage new players to enter the market... like I said, I dont see the solution which will keep all sides happy...

The minimum gold bar price I believe is set to 700gc. This however does not take away from Daniks words regarding the massive investment and long period of ROI.

[Haron]

Actually the minimum price is 750 gc. And as more and more people produce gold bars, and more and more have built and studied what they intend to, so that the demand drops, the prices will eventuall creep down towards this level. Thus: Don't build a new gold smith now unless you're willing to accept many years before making any profit.

Or gold smiths could be more innovative. There are ways to compete or cooperate to affect prices.

[Most Lee Harmless]

The formula for the making cost in coin per bar is : 3000 - GS level * 75 : so a level 10 will cost 2250 gc per bar : a level20 will cost 1500gc per bar. Add to that, the cost of 'wages' : base is 60 each rum, tobacco and food per hour : 60 each per additional 100 workers which will add 10 bars per hour to production ( but that will not reduce the actual coin required per bar.

Given the port price spread is plus/minus 60 (or thereabouts), once the average port price drops to 1550, not a single GS will be able to make a profit on sales.

Haron is correct : the current top producers could co-operate to manipulate the market in their favor : my point was mainly that newer players will find the entry cost prohibitive, not a problem for me, I've already built mine to (currently) profitable levels but for the game as a whole..maybe not so good.

[Haron]

Then I guess we will seldom see prices as low as 1500 gc, since gold smiths will simply stop making gold bars if the prices get so low.

And it wouldn't help if Tom Lowe or I stepped up and skirmished those gold transport fleets either - the gold would still end up on the market.

[Most Lee Harmless]

Then I guess we will seldom see prices as low as 1500 gc, since gold smiths will simply stop making gold bars if the prices get so low.

And it wouldn't help if Tom Lowe or I stepped up and skirmished those gold transport fleets either - the gold would still end up on the market.

Thats the other cost of business that a goldsmith has to consider : while there may be a margin in selling bars, if being skirmished loses the days profits, there is no profit in even starting up the mills. So, really, even the big dogs in smithing need a healthy margin to cover such potential losses : again, what chance the new guy still developing their smiths with even slighter margins to work with?

[Stan Rogers]

Perhaps smithy's will form a cartel and agree to when GB falls to x price, they halt production. Problem is, if a smithy's primary income is from GB, some will say "runit till it breaks. We worry about it then"" . I do not think there is the market demand for the available supply of GB as it stands currently.

[Most Lee Harmless]

Actually, its not in current top dog producers interests in pushing up prices too high : that just lets the next tier of producers onto the gravy train : nope, the best move for such a cartel would be to force prices down to a level no-one else can justify joining the market : then its a nice maybe more modestly profitable gravy supply for them ever more.

And if that sounds odd, consider how Saudi Arabia has long used that tactic to mess with Irans higher cost-base oil business.

[John jacob astor]

you all complain about trying to fix supply and what not, but why not fix demand? perhaps the solution would be to add a feature to the game or edit one to cost gold bars. the trick would be to make it universal so more gold bars are consumed and thus needed.

currently, the main use for gold bars is the hideout buildings. not only do few players ever get to this point and choose to actually make the investment to consume many bars, but it is a one time need. once the building is done, there is no more need for gold bars.
the other use is obviously LMM and SotL. LMM cost very few gold bars, and SotL are only built a few at a time by experienced players. and not everyone even use these types of ships, especially with the new tech that make trade galleons and flag galleons more useful.

what i see in the system is a huge lack of ability to create any real demand. if you create a recurring game feature that most of the players do on a regular basis, then the demand will grow and more importantly be maintained. whatever this feature may be, i think it is necessary to fix your gold bar problem. a fix of the demand is the real solution

[Sebena]

you all complain about trying to fix supply and what not, but why not fix demand? perhaps the solution would be to add a feature to the game or edit one to cost gold bars. the trick would be to make it universal so more gold bars are consumed and thus needed.

currently, the main use for gold bars is the hideout buildings. not only do few players ever get to this point and choose to actually make the investment to consume many bars, but it is a one time need. once the building is done, there is no more need for gold bars.
the other use is obviously LMM and SotL. LMM cost very few gold bars, and SotL are only built a few at a time by experienced players. and not everyone even use these types of ships, especially with the new tech that make trade galleons and flag galleons more useful.

what i see in the system is a huge lack of ability to create any real demand. if you create a recurring game feature that most of the players do on a regular basis, then the demand will grow and more importantly be maintained. whatever this feature may be, i think it is necessary to fix your gold bar problem. a fix of the demand is the real solution

Maybe giving option to buy needed resources in different ports but to be able to do that instead of just sinking goods which we sell by trade ports use some ammount but also make stock and only way to buy those resources are gold bars and only usable thing to pervent any exploit is for building resources to build ships (all goes to the same warehouse) or feed people if we produce goldbars ourselves... this way we would be able to make warehouses play bigger role in having them on high level we would get chance to raise demand for gold bars and port stock would go down meaning that maintaining ports population and things like that more usefull... this is just an idea which I came upon after seeing this post

[Maha]

maha sneaks in a different discussion...

to create a new recurring demand, a new addition to the game has to be added.

what about the port development. all those developments needs to be done in gold bars. repairs have to be done in gold bars etc.

to create more demand for goldbars you just have to attack and demolish a nice peaceful port