(Rare) Call Leviathan

[MAjesty]

-Edited out-

10.Posting of private messages/emails with another player or administration or moderators is forbidden. Posting of any user info is prohibited.

-Please keep trolling outside these forums too.

~Captain Jack

[MAjesty]

id like to point out the dishonest nature of this conversation. until we had it there was no direct interchange between my point and his. it's been pointed out that its against the rules to post private conversations... something something, that's ok. i can get banned, i dont need this game, i got other ones.... but i like this game as a pirate game. pirate games are cool, and ive had fun playing this game up until this point, i can walk away from it without feeling a deep sense of loss.

i feel the points ive brought up are valid. i think that levi in and of itself discourages new member join-age. and from then on retention. i also think it stagnates the game itself. and this is bad, for a game, where people want to be pirates.

if an admin tells me to take down the previous post of mine, that's cool. ill take it down, if im banned, it's also cool, ill go play Other. but this game is cool, and id like to stick with it.

it means something to me that the big kids are worshiping their investment rather then taking interest in the wellbeing of the game as a whole. which is def affected by the existence of nukes in a sandbox game.

regards all, in case im not here tomorrow, happy pirating.

[Random pandah]

because 1 is instant pwnage, and the other is mildly annoying

[Captain Jack]

Just stick to the topic expectations, leaving personal issues outside of this thread and no one will be banned.

[MAjesty]

i suppose thats fair, the private convo me and sparrow had about this subject is out of bounds.... so how about this, i openly challenge any player to explain why levi is good for the game. please consider and respond directly to the points i have mentioned previously. specifically

1. levi doesn't level the playing field for new players against big players, instead it gives big players destroy on command ability for any little or middle player who crosses them

2. levi slows down the game overall... all the big players are uneager to fight other big players in any extended way, because both players would lose millions if levis were used against their fleet, taking away their status at the top of the pirates glory ladder

3. levi promotes bullying, because players who have had time to stack levis can demolish anyone who they pick on the moment they resist, encouraging them to leave the game entirely or just go passive (but i would suggest more realistically most are leaving the game)

4. there are not real counters to levi, sparrow suggested dozens, and that means at least 24, but beyond mindbar and countercurse (2) i can seem to think of anything a new or even middle player would have readily available, much less obvious. i think this point is the most important, because it makes the previous 3 points FAR more destructive, and insodoing reduces this game from an ongoing exciting conflict, to a Mutually Assured Destruction scenario where anyone but the highest few have any reason to stick around, encouraging the game to lose its new members.

i Really like this game, but this one card cripples the game overall. if these counter options are there, it would be gentlemanly or at least polite to inform the littles and middles about their options, not expect them to wade through mud to get there.

zj out

[Black sparrow]

because 1 is instant pwnage, and the other is mildly annoying

How about this scenario:
A player with 5 Brig of War level 10, 100 millions stashed.

Why he would care about Call Leviathan?

How about the traders with 300 ships that need about 15millions gold every 2 hours for plundering costs in case they get favorable winds/fugitive from justice? How exactly call leviathan is worse than them in any way when the max damage it can do (to such a player) is like 300k gold?

How about the real case scenario of General Grasshoper? Where he had 1 Lvl 10 Ship of the Line and he was harassing everyone? What would you do WITHOUT call leviathan there?

How about the 5 60pointers sotl scenario? Will you damage them for how long? For 1 day? For 2 days? For 1 week? Then you will run out of cards and the fleet will ultimately own you.

And yes, I could name dozens of more cases and this is my way of speech. I won't sit down and think, oh dozens is 12 in plural so I must first think like at least 24 cases first, before writing this. If this troubles some people's mind,I can use the word: several. Now I believe we are all set.

[MAjesty]

Nice of you to present arguments in public without running to admin,

First as an overview. None of these scenarios "Counter" someone using Levi against you, and that was the original point.

Second, under the overview, none of your points respond to the real in game harms i have described the levi causes, its tragic if super ultra mega gen grasshopper is doing damage, but at best that suggests he can be countered by levi, not that levi is not doing ultra damage to the game...

now that i have readdressed my points and your decision to ignore them, lets focus on why your points are wrong.

1. 5 brigs of war with 100 million stashed, this is a ultra-rich people problem, and ur right, someone playing out this bizarre scenario would lose nothing from levi being used against them, this doesn't in anyway contradict the damage the levi has on new players, or the stagnation of big players interacting during the game.

this point doesn't improve the game, it has all of the harms of levi, without the leveling effect that say, levi caused 500 to 1000 damage to target ship would have. if levi DOES encourage bullying or stagnation, the harms here far outweigh whether or not the bizarre brig of war commander (we'll call him s.h.) you described cares about levis thrown at him.

2. Again, here sparrow is talking about rich people problems, how many traders have 300 ships, not to mention 300 ships without a massive SotL armada or 5 to defend their fleet. i would argue that this SotL armade that all the big kids have is a perfectly acceptable answer to this "problem" because someone with this many ships, has this much more in terms of revenge fleets, and one can assume safely : voodoo. in the basic, if u fug me i fug u back. levi is different, because that 300 number that was rounded up from 250K is actually 1/10 of the amount of damage done by a single levi on a lvl 10 sotl. this point sharply highlights my second point, the stagnation of the game overall. a single card, handed out constantly can do the damage of 10 attacks, on the most valuable players of the game, even if it is done to a player who has 2 ships, 1 lvl 1 hawker, and one lvl 10 SotL, an attack on this hypothetical player would likely rake in 3-10 thousand gold, but with a levi, it does 3 million.... thats bullying, and in its more practical form, it discourages any combat among higher lvl players.

3. super ultra scary general grasshopper had a lvl 10 sotl... wow i had to do some research on this one, cuz obviously i wasnt here for it. gen grasshopper was harassing noobs with a big sotl and the noob-protection brigade stepped in and levid him until his last boat was sunk.... since then the game has changed, and even then.. as of now, players with more then 1 SotL would be able to answer him back just fine. under the new rules they would be able to drop his levels in battle, not with instant death magic. furthermore there is voodoo which increases my fleet (attacking grass) and decreasing your fleet's defense with say swarm of worms (grass) these counters are natural and limited, and do not allow the harms is described in my 2,3 and 4 points. i understand why the rules of the day encouraged u to use levi to check grass back, but it was at best a stopgap solution for the time being, not a correct way to handle a long term game.

3b once again this post doesnt defend against a levi, it pretends it is the only possible solution, which under the current rules, it IS NOT.

4. This is by far the best point brought up, again it doesnt answer any of my points, and is big kids problems. but that is also where the solution would lay, a mountain of bless and swarm of worms, and these are cards big kids are likely to have stacked up. the unicorn fleet monsters that some players have built up would take great effort to destroy, but would also offer incredible reward to the big kid who starts taking away boats when the clear the bad-guy out effort was destroyed....

more importantly though, this argument like all the others, is not a counter to levi, it is a unique scenario where levi would shortcut teamwork... this doesnt justify the levi, much less counter it, which was the challenge

also the dozens and or several other scenarios, im sure at least one of which would counter the levi as orig suggested... ill respond to them should they be brought up.

and so i close with my original points, lets say a shared conclusion, bullying is bad. stagnating the game is bad, allowing big kids to stop an inactive grasshopper several updates ago is an illegitimate reason to allow bullying or stagnation. and there are better, fairer solutions to the unicorn fleets that dont encourage bullying or stagnation..

thank you for finally responding to this challenge, but u remain wrong. please try again.

[Grasshopper]

Pirate ahoy jim lad, and all that nonsense!
Well, well, well...here we are again.
I just logged in after a couple of months inactive to find I'm ranked 17th, my highest rank ever! I still only have 1 ship, that stopped trading days ago and a bit of romance left with the Govenors Daughters, but that doesn't matter does it?

Actually, yes it does. It's ridiculous that an inactive player can climb the ranks. What kind of stupidity is this? The few have made this game a boring, non pirate mess for pretty much everyone else...Long live Witch Doctors glory!

[Hawk]

No offense Zombie but you have no idea how combat is from a strong player's point of view

I agree with BS that the card is needed, but that is only because there is no other way to beat maxed out sotls. Yes, there are certain circumstances where they can be beat, but against an active player those sotls cannot be defeated or stolen. In fact when I held SotLs the only thing that could hurt me were leviathans and I do not have a quarter of the resources players who hold maxed SotLs have. A new damage/repair/battle system and a few things would need to change before the card changes.

Necessity is no excuse to keep a flawed game mechanic though. Just make the game better in other areas first
http://www.piratesglory.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=373&hilit=repair

[Xepshunall]

OK. I can see the necessity for it right now but with the game fixes you propose, I'd like to see it go away forever. We could make a party of conquering the Leviathan once and for all.
It could be given a huge number of hit points and could be included in the NPC battles. Any attack on it would make it go away with some loss of hit points but would have a rate of recovery so that it really is a battle and not just a countdown. The fame gained could be related to the amount of damage dealt and could be multiplied on the killing blow. If it catches on, its kind could send a replacement to the patrol section.
I'll lose a large advantage in the process but I'll hunt down Leviathan right alongside the others who want it dead. Given a choice, I would check the box in the Patrol section that indicates that my preferred target is the horrendous beast. There could be limited types of fleets that would show up near a Hunter of the Leviathan. Leviathan and Treasure fleets sharing half of the battles while Pirate Hunters show up the other half of the time.
Once the original Leviathan is gone, it would be a good time for its card to be replaced by Ship Refitting. That's a pretty innocuous card.