Plunder Formula tweak discussion

[Captain Jack]

Guluere, it will take a massive effort to bait me into the pirate vs merchant illusionary talk. Define me the Pirate and then define me the merchant. Give me definitions that are widely accepted. Then we will talk.

I shall now go to a website to find the definition on both of them.

Piracy is an act of robbery or criminal violence at sea. Those who engage in acts of piracy are called pirates.

Merchant, retailer or one who attempts to generally buy wholesale and sell later at a profit.

It is better to let those who tag themselves as either to explain.

[not a pirate]

Have I not made myself clear on how this restrains pirates? If not, I apologize and will try to clear it up more.

-Extra earnings from Advanced Piracy (up to 62500 per attack versus current 25k per attack)
-Extra earnings from Sink Chance Plunder

The first bullet: Advanced Piracy--- oh, so you mean that a pirate will need voodoo to make more money? Have I not been saying that in all of my posts? If I need to explain this further, I will do so right now. In the game right now, if you are just a pirate with 2 attack fleets, you have no way of generating income without voodoo such as Fugitive from Justice and Hostile Natives to be able to get gold from other players, unless of course you attack NPCs but it is my belief that this is not worth the turns invested. Therefore, if you want some gold, you need Fugitives, Natives, Ambushes, Vengeances... a.k.a. you are reliant on voodoo to make a living... I hope this cleared that up.

The second bullet: Sink Chance--- Is there not a suggestion to allow a higher number of ships to have a lower sink chance? So it would take more turns and luck to get this extra bit of gold?

In regards to your talks about the lowering of the plunder max- I was FOR that in the original suggestion to an extent, as you would make more gold over time in a raid, right? But now you are requiring people to purchase that benefit, and some of us don't have gold without voodoo, aye? So then I suggested that the pirate play-style be aided by somehow solving the problem of being dependent on voodoo, and I then get flamed by Wolfie and Guluere- but that doesn't matter right now.

The reduced max gold coins plunder up to 100k for someone that wants to defend? He will pay/invest for this which makes it by default fair.

So then you require the pirate invest gold to make more money, which would require more voodoo to make, which is still restraining a pirate's style, right? Let me draw it out more.

Merchants: more gold + less max plunder = bigger, better fleets - this much is true.

But then you require pirates to: invest in piracy to make more gold which takes more voodoo and time, which, as I said, restrains the pirate to rely on voodoo once again... I can clarify more if I need....

[Captain Jack]

You use advanced Piracy now?
You use Piracy now?

The plunder max remains at 250k. It gets to 150k only for prepared enemies. These are expected to be only the real advanced players with many ships as 200 ships are already manageable. We can define better who gets to use this defense by adjusting the technology pricing.

Same goes for "pirates" as you call them. We can define the pricing and you ultimately will be able to invest to get more. After all, you got earnings from plunder, right? What exactly you do your earnings? Or you always sail with no reserves, just transforming your earnings to new voodoo?

I can understand the later, sailing for Glory, for Pirates Glory and no profit. Still, even in this case, your Glory is not lost. If you are up for profit then you can afford the improvements if you want extra profit.

Sink chance is an extra out of nothing. Right now, when a ship sinks (no matter if this happens more frequently now) you earn nothing. With the change, you will earn something. Also, you will get to plunder higher level ships AND more ships (as they will lose levels harder and they will dive to bottom less frequently).

[not a pirate]

On your third "stanza" you hit the nail right on the head, CJ. Pirates right now HAVE to sail with no reserves, we constantly have to buy new voodoo, then we can put away the tiny amount that is left. I am kind of confused as to why my concerns of being reliant on voodoo to make some gold are being ignored.. with all due respect, you keep talking about the plundering of ships and the aftermath of it, being a ship sinking, getting gold, whatever else- but you forget HOW the ship becomes able to plunder... Voodoo is NEEDED for a pirate to get it lit up... I realize this game isn't real life, and many aspects of it are essential and unrealistic at the same time, but pirates didn't need voodoo to attack ships back then... I have no clue as to HOW to solve the restraint, but I know that is needs fixing..

[Captain Jack]

Not everyone who calls themselves a pirate runs with no reserves though. Historically speaking, there were so-called Pirates that were running with big fleets. Pirates that were ransacking ports (soon in PG).

If you want me to hit the nail harder, I would say that you mostly care for the hit and run strategy. The strategy were you use a fleet or two that you later expect to lose. Still, I do not see why the proposed changes will affect you.

If I had to press myself to find the reason, I would say that it lowers your chances to capture ships, which is after all the greatest ambition of every attacker and very fun to happen indeed. At the other hand, you need to consider the defenders. Do they not deserve to have an extra way to defend against defleet?

If you explore this further, you will find out that most advanced players run on cheap fleets to prevent massive losses as they know that de-fleeting is a task that can happen. With these proposals (I like the second better myself) we give them a way to defend and we expect them in the long run to increase the value of ships used. Also, the way provided is not a win-win situation; it is still breakable and needs resources. In the same time, you get more ships to target and a higher average profit. Battles will become more strategic and there will be less fluke shots against prepared enemies.

If you still want the BIG PRIZE of plundering ships, against a prepared enemy, you will need to try harder, that is true.

[Sebena]

you got that right Captain Jack in their eyes players whom they consider merchants although they include me there when in fact I am opportunist they don't deserve any way of defense...

[not a pirate]

Historically speaking, pirates never needed voodoo to attack somebody else either, eh? I like the "hit" strategy, but I have not lost any of my attack fleets since I've been playing. Not one ship, and would you like to know why? That's how the pirate play-style has been designed. You keep a lower ship count, you dedicate gold to buying voodoo so you can make gold, you have "minimized losses" but you don't have much profit without voodoo. And sure, taking a ship is fun, but everyone in this game is after one thing: wealth. With wealth comes fame, glory, and everything else.

EDIT: As to your regards of no defense, you are yet again referring to after the fleets are lit up. Mindbars, countercurses, and whatever else are still in play and they can completely ruin a raid/attack. Before someone says "well, some of us don't have the resources and voodoo to constantly protect ourselves"--- PIRATES HAVE TO HAVE VOODOO TOO! Those considered merchants have a steady source of income WITHOUT voodoo, some pirates don't even have a steady source WITH voodoo. Would someone like to address my concerns over the need for voodoo, or should I stop pushing it?

[Hawk]

The thing about the Academy is it automatically is in favor of traders, as they by default get more sustained gold and benefit faster. I really like the original suggestion because it actually helps novice pirates, who don't have a lot of voodoo past hostile natives, or the know-how to steal ships in complex raids. Your current suggestion though, gives new players none of the perks which balanced the tweak out, while giving their best targets (established traders) a sizable buff.

As a side note, if Skirmish was worth using, that would be a great no voodoo piracy option for starting pirates

[Sebena]

The thing about the Academy is it automatically is in favor of traders, as they by default get more sustained gold and benefit faster. I really like the original suggestion because it actually helps novice pirates, who don't have a lot of voodoo past hostile natives, or the know-how to steal ships in complex raids. Your current suggestion though, gives new players none of the perks which balanced the tweak out, while giving their best targets (established traders) a sizable buff.

Yet original suggestion was marked as unfair

[not a pirate]

I agree with Skyhawk. Once again, as before in this entire thread, sizing up some of what I am saying.

So by your logic Wolfie, since we threw the OP out because it was unfair, we can throw this one out because we see it as unfair now?