Credits Exchange redesign

[Captain Jack]

After receiving heavy influence by Haron, we are ready to discuss a credits market reform.

We are looking to imitate the real system for currency exchange. We are not experts at this part though, so we are ready to accept suggestions.

This system can be designed in a way to allow "gambling" on the exchange with options to use leverage perhaps. We need your suggestions here as like I said, we are not experts.

For the basic part, players will be able to create orders. You will simply enter the amount you wish and how much you want to offer (buy or sell). The order will remain there till it is met by a player.

The problematic part of the new system is that banks will not longer play a role for the credits market. This is why we will need to give them another buff to ensure their profitability. Our idea for this is to apply a minimum fee in their favor for every send payment, as currently many banks run at 0%. This should be more than enough for them for their long term profitability. Of course, we are open to your criticism. It all depends on how well some of the banks have seen a return of their investment (already).

[Kart]

My bank does not deal in credits, so I really don't have an investment in this issue. However, knowing how much some players have invested in their banks to be able to be the elite players dealing in credits, it seems like a terrible thing to do to them on the outset. If you promise aspects of the game if you use an enormous fortune and a huge time investment only to take it away once they have achieved the status, how can serious plans be made for future events. How can people say "I am going to make the commitment to achieve this option of play" knowing after their hard work it may be taken away from them.

I look at this as an issue of can we trust game development in the future. If a new feature comes out, should we make the commitment and effort knowing it could be taken away? This game has been played knowing that you must change with the times, but there are times when the changes have been so drastic it has completely done away with months of preparations and hundreds of millions maybe even billions gold that have been spent.'

I realize this would only be in play for a few players who are bankers, but you are dealing with destroying things these dedicated players have worked hard for. It is my opinion that these players should keep what has been promised them. I am of the opinion that some of them probably did not build their banks to get the credits option up for profit but for in game status. This status could not be replaced by giving them "ATM fees".

These few credit option bankers have my greatest respect and will have my most sincere condolences if this travesty befalls them.

[Haron]

Hooray!!! ***Raises flag and pops champagne***

OK, here are some suggestions to how the details may work. NOTE: This system will work even better with Credit Cents, but for a credit market only, I think it will work nice with only "whole" credits as well. If it is to be expanded to voodoo cards later, credit cents will be needed.

1) Placing a sell order (selling credits). The player enters the number of credits he wants to sell, and the price he wants to sell them for. If this price is lower than the current lowest buy price, some or all are sold (see point 4), otherwise, they are entered into the market, and removed from the players credits at hand.
2) Placing a buy order (buying credits). The player enters the number of credits he wants to buy, and the price he is willing to pay for them. If this is higher than the current highest sell price, some or all are bought (see point 4), otherwise, the order is entered into the market, and the gold is removed from the players treasury.
3) The market structure. Here, the available orders are presented. Four columns are needed, two for SELL orders, and two for BUY orders. For both, the "depth" (number of credits) for each price offered is shown. Example:

BUYING SELLING
DEPTH PRICE DEPTH PRICE
50 100.000 40 100.001
43 99.999 65 100.002
100 99.998 80 100.003
60 100.003 102 100.004

So, there are 40 credits for sale at 100.001 gc each, 60 for sale at 100.002 gc each, and so on. Also, you may sell 50 credits for 100.000, another 43 for 99.999 and so on.

4) Making a sale. I'll use the above list as an example. If this is the current market, and I want to buy 100 credits, I enter a buy order of 100 credits for a price of 100.002. Then, I'll automatically buy the cheapest credits first: 40 credits for 100.001 gc each. Then, I'll but 60 credits for 100.002 credits each. After this, the market would look like this:

BUYING SELLING
DEPTH PRICE DEPTH PRICE
50 100.000 5 100.002
43 99.999 80 100.003
100 99.998 102 100.004
60 100.003

And I would have gotten 100 credits for 10.000.160 gc (just over 10M gc). Now, if I had tried to buy 200 credits for the price of 100.002 gc, I would only have been able to buy 105, since only 105 were for sale at 100.002 gc or lower. The remaining 95 credits would be entered as a BUY order, and the market would look like this:

BUYING SELLING
DEPTH PRICE DEPTH PRICE
95 100.002 80 100.003
50 100.000 102 100.004
43 99.999
100 99.998
60 100.003

5) The order of sales: Here we deviate a little from real world stock markets. I suggest that the orders are handled in a first come, first served manner. So, if I was the first to place a sell order of 20 credits for 100.001 gc each, then later BigTea entered a sell order of 1000 credits for 100.001 gc each, and someone wanted to buy 60 credits for 100.001 gc, he would in effect buy 20 from me and 40 from BigTea.

6) Receiving credits and gc. This is no problem in the "real world": You simply get your stocks/money immediately. However, getting 10M gc while asleep is a problem in PG. I therefore suggest these money be placed in a bank account, which must be large enough to hold your sale. This can also be where banks come in: You have to buy/sell THROUGH a certain bank, and they may charge a tiny percentage of the sale as commission. So, you have a "Credit Exchange" account at Morgans Bank, which can hold 50M gc. You may then place sell orders through this bank for up to 50M gc. Whenever you sell credits, gold is transferred to your bank account. Credits can be given directly to players, since they are not in danger of being stolen.

7) Altering orders. In the "real world", you can at any time withdraw any order, or place new orders. However, in PG, "hiding gc" is an issue. So, placing huge amounts of underpriced buy orders, then withdrawing them, must be avoided. This can, again, be achieved through the banks. If you have to place your buy orders through a bank, you can only place buy orders for an amount equal to that banks holding capacity. This gold is "locked", but still takes up "space" in your bank. And the banks can, again, demand a tiny percentage of each transaction, thus, banks can get a little bit both from sellers and buyers of credits. If this is implemented, any order can be terminated at any time without the abuse of "hiding" gc.


Well, this is a first draft, anyway. Lots of text, I know, but I wanted to get the details in there. Does this seem like a decent starting point for a "stock exchange"?

EDIT: Sorry about the poor tables. Does anyone know how to make good ones?

[Sebena]

I agree on this with Kart. These few players have greatest respect from me aswell, I never realized how much did they invested time,gold coins and credits until I didn't open my bank so I believe that this would be seriouse hit on them. I say that this shouldn't be made at all because curnent way is more than enough and if this doesn't work for some then they can contact other players whom might be interessted in selling or buying credits they don't need to use banks

[Captain Jack]

My bank does not deal in credits, so I really don't have an investment in this issue. However, knowing how much some players have invested in their banks to be able to be the elite players dealing in credits, it seems like a terrible thing to do to them on the outset. If you promise aspects of the game if you use an enormous fortune and a huge time investment only to take it away once they have achieved the status, how can serious plans be made for future events. How can people say "I am going to make the commitment to achieve this option of play" knowing after their hard work it may be taken away from them.

I look at this as an issue of can we trust game development in the future. If a new feature comes out, should we make the commitment and effort knowing it could be taken away? This game has been played knowing that you must change with the times, but there are times when the changes have been so drastic it has completely done away with months of preparations and hundreds of millions maybe even billions gold that have been spent.'

I realize this would only be in play for a few players who are bankers, but you are dealing with destroying things these dedicated players have worked hard for. It is my opinion that these players should keep what has been promised them. I am of the opinion that some of them probably did not build their banks to get the credits option up for profit but for in game status. This status could not be replaced by giving them "ATM fees".

These few credit option bankers have my greatest respect and will have my most sincere condolences if this travesty befalls them.

This position ignores important facts;
-Credits exchange has been a feature that has been added to the banks to help them with their ROI. In the same time we did this to help them, we can remove it to keep it fair if we feel that this objective has been accomplished.
-Credits exchanges have already made very good profits. They run the market for 6.5months now. I am not sure of how high these are but i suspect that at some cases they might be up to 50% of the cost of a lvl20 bank or greater.
-You overlook the strength of the income through send payments feature. Which in combination with a future removal of send credits feature, will be even greater.

If you cook all these, you will see that Banks are still getting more than they had at first place and they are still on the positive.

But to close this issue, the Banks are not to be an instant profit anyway.

Taking it further, we are entitled to keep the game balanced and not the bankers as winners. Banks are making safe-profit only and this safe-only profit cannot be greater than the goldsmith profit for example or trading profit.

These being said, I would appreciate your response. I would also be interested to hear whether or not you are aware of the profits made by banks through credits exchange so far.

[PhoenixKnight]

I am interested!

[Kart]

I am always interested in hearing counter arguments to points I make. I would love to see actual figures of what banks have profited already. As I stated this is not an investment I have made, but I am concerned about if this move (taking the credit options from the banks) would effect other investments later in the game. If you sharing these figures would help concerning that please come forward with them.

The developers of Pirates Glory bring us a highly entertaining game to play at no cost. It is a game that is not plagued with popup adds. They provide this game in a manner where a person can play and be successful without having to be a pay to play participant. I certainly respect the rights of the developers to adjust the game as they see fit. My contention was not with any changes as far as credit values were concerned, it was only with the removal of an option that players may have worked hard to receive. I brought my thoughts forward only to present a side that may not have been represented. By the fact that none of these bankers have protested themselves, maybe I am looking at something that is a non-issue with them.

[Sebena]

I am not sure about safe profit because who will pay back loans whose users quit game? I know that there is talk about shark loan technology but that will require investment and more spendings so I would like to ask will that technology be taken away after few months when bankers return money from loans?.

I have no intention of arguing or accusing but this idea is stupid (I couldn't find any better word), we will allowe you to return what you invested and something more than we are taking it away because someone who started game few months ago kept hitting us with same suggestion to make his pirate life easier.

Now after this my little rumble I would love to see correct numbers how much did bankers earned on credits and not saying that they earned something then ask do others know how much they earned.

[Sir Henry Morgan]

I certainly do not speak for all bankers, but I for one have no problem with the credit exchange being removed from the banking system. As a profit center, it is about average with other profit centers in the bank, with the main competition not being other banks, but the private transactions that take place. I currently offer the exchange simply as a service to others, as I definitely buy more credits than are sold.

I believe that overall, an open exchange system for all (like the voodoo market and ship market) would prove beneficial for the game. It puts the actual value of a credit out there for all to see; right now, no one truly knows what the value is as bankers set their own prices, and the private market is doing as friends trade with friends, etc.

I didn't build my bank to make big profits quickly - I built it to play with and have fun, and the bank feature is still a beta operation - there are many other features that can or will be added. As CJ has stated, banks are long term profit centers, that may take a few years to pay for themselves.

I believe (ie, my own personal opinion) the best interest of game play, a credit exchange/market/auction is the best way to go.

[Big Brother]

Not sure if it has been mentioned before, but what about using the Banks as a sort of "broker" for access to the sale/purchase of credits for gold.

Then a percentage could be charged on X transaction.

This would create competition among the other banks, and in addition, it would add to the realism about it being like a forex market.