Diplomacy: Nation change barrier

[John jacob astor]

I would just like to add that when a new player starts, they have no idea of the political climate and national tug-of-wars that erupt from time to time.
Consequently, they join using their real home flag and then may want to change when they get a better handle on how nation/guild issues work.

It would be wrong to penalize them by making a nation change difficult for their first real informed choice.
Maybe the first 1 or 2 could be free or, if a person has over X total influence, then they have restrictions imposed at that time ?

I agree. Or perhaps it gets a slightly longer change time the longer you have been in the game. For example, an extra day to change nations every 100 days someone has been playing. Or perhaps do it by how many turns you have spent. longer time for more turns spent.

this way new players will have an easier time whereas older players that have been around and know all about stuff have a more challenging time to switch nations

[Most Lee Harmless]

How about a popular vote? Then players which other players dont like can be stopped or given a lengthy delay before they are allowed to change nations : and quid pro quo, those who are popular get a speedy visa, free peanuts and complimentary champagne for their journey?

[Captain Jack]

Becoming a pirate first is unrealistic option. Only the top 20 nations appears in NPC patrol which means that most of the newcomers will be unable to become pirates. Even now, the way to become a pirate is to first switch to one of the top20 nations so you can have targets to hit (or switch to a high tax nation I would suggest).

Time limits must be avoided too. If one can do it so fast, he should be allowed to do it. There is no time simulation here to implement such limits. We generally avoid time limits where possible.

Influence loss is a fair idea though and I have seen good follow ups on this.

The way to forward this is to summarize in how you feel it should work, taking in mind the rest of the responses and my position. Then edit the first post with your new suggestion and let us know with a new post.

[Haron]

Yes, I'll think about this, edit my first post accordingly (when I'm done thinking), and make a new post. Let me first, however, address the two first points:

First: I never meant to suggest that anyone has to START OUT as a pirate. What I meant, is that the only way to LEAVE a nation, should be by changing nation (voluntarily or otherwise) to pirate, rather than to change to a nation of your choice. This, of course, only makes sense in conjunction with a time limit.

Second: I'll just explain WHY I think a time limit may be necessary if diplomacy is implemented (By a "time limit" I mean that you can not enter a nation before X days have passed since you left your previous nation and turned pirate). Let's say Norway declares war on Bermuda (HYPOTETICALLY, please don't kill me, Bermuda players...). Now, whatever a war involves, there should also be a way to sue for peace (after a vote in the nation). Being a rather lonely King with only one subject, I'm then very prone to a hostile takeover. Bermuda sends several of their weaker players - or one of the strong ones - to change nationality to Norway, rises quickly to Count/King (depending on strength), and passes a vote to sue for peace (offering all of Norways treasury as compensation). And that's the end of that war. Or several other "diplomatic" actions, for that matter. National stability is needed. Influence loss will provide SOME barrier, but mainly to the top players in a nation. And rising to count level and getting a vote power of 5 is very easy, and influence is unimportant for becoming a count. So a powerful nation makes sure that several of their nobility keep their influence low (to avoid losing much when changing nations), providing the "court" with the gold to increase the influence of the nation as such. How can you have wars when the other nations people can just join your nation instead? And let's say it was Bermuda who declared war on Norway (perhaps to block me out of their ports as punishment for something (which I'm sure I didn't do...) ) - then I can just change nationality to Bermuda (abandoning Norway), and be safe from them.

With that in mind, I think avoiding a time limit may be difficult, but I'll try to think of alternatives. Voting to throw people out of a nation would be an alternative, but would only cause even more problems, in my opinion. Perhaps forcing the players who change nations to spend an hour in a bathtub filled with crabs would be a possible solution...

[John jacob astor]

perhaps a solution to this issue is setting a maximum number of times you can switch nations in a certain amount of time. like maybe only 3 nation switches per month (these numbers are just for explanation, real numbers can be suggested below). this way doesn't include the time delay that Capt. Jack is opposed to and it limits people's ability to just whimsically change nations like many people don't want to happen.

[Most Lee Harmless]

And whats so wrong with being whimsical? Kill-joys are taking over the world... I despair... in a whimsical manner, of course...

[John jacob astor]

nothing wrong with being whimsical, but at some point there is something as "over the top"

[Most Lee Harmless]

Nothing wrong with being over the top, those who dont aim for the stars will always end up... not as near them as those who do... um.. yep...

[DezNutz]

Time limits must be avoided too. If one can do it so fast, he should be allowed to do it. There is no time simulation here to implement such limits. We generally avoid time limits where possible.

I disagree with staying away from time limits, especially relating to nation changes. A perfect example is Danik and TheLoveTiger's take over of the USA, in retribution of the US - Spain war. They switched nations, quickly rose to the top and ousted the king who was working on fixing the war started by the now banned Rothschild. Now they are subverting the treasury. This is something that should not happen. There needs to be some sort of restriction that prevents this or makes it significantly harder to do. Nation stability is important, especially if diplomacy is ever going to be implemented. The most logical way to do this is through time restrictions on changing nations, whether it be through the process of changing nations or once changed a player is ineligible to be on the council or be king without being a nation member for x time.

[Haron]

I have edited my suggestion (in the first post of this thread), and now offer two alternatives.