Bounty System discussion

[Captain Jack]

@Yosarian
In respect to the topic title, I need your feedback on current feature. Do you think it is anti-merchant? A simple yes or not will be enough.
Continuing to recent implementations, I seek similar rating. Are the following anti-merchant???
1)Ships Market (v1.6)
2)Banks Expansion (currency exchanger) (v1.5)
3)Avonmora Herald. (v1.5)

These are the 4 major features since Hideout release. Feel free to add Fishing although I do not consider it a major feature (happened at v1.5)

A simple yes or no will do.

I think that most players are not really aware of how the game evolved in the last few months as it evolved in lighting speed. This pace will be maintained for the near future as we have tons of announced features waiting in line. I understand that you will all feel a bit overwhelmed but we are trying to build a momentum here in order to keep everyone engaged.

As to where you can go from here... if you want to expand as a merchant in a peaceful way, seek loans from a bank or capital from your country. These are the 2 main ways to advance fast peacefully and without any credit usage. Use the gold coins to build ships and buy captains. Expand your merchant fleet and with the profit repay the loans (nation capital should be free I guess).

I do not see how bounties won't allow this. Or Ship Market, or goldsmith. Banks surely can be helpful in this area.

@Stan
Solely from what you write, I suppose you got a Goldsmith you no longer operate (I have not checked, I assure you). So, in the case I am not mistaken, can you tell me your current goldsmith level, the next level cost and how much each gold bars currently costs for you?

[Roberts]

A path to the darker side of Avonmora is forming... Called the Inactive list...

It is funny on one behalf, but also the truth:

When something seems unfair to the pirates, they " ***** "

When something is unfair to Merchants, they "*****"

When something is unfair to anyone, they " ***** "

But, the Admins always pulls through... Always manages to please one side then another, you guys are just not noticing it yet. How lucky you guys are to have a game like this.

Side note:
Game is a game,
Some things you do not like,
Get over it.

[Jack Aubrey]

A path to the darker side of Avonmora is forming... Called the Inactive list...

It is funny on one behalf, but also the truth:

When something seems unfair to the pirates, they " ***** "

When something is unfair to Merchants, they "*****"

When something is unfair to anyone, they " ***** "

But, the Admins always pulls through... Always manages to please one side then another, you guys are just not noticing it yet. How lucky you guys are to have a game like this.

Side note:
Game is a game,
Some things you do not like,
Get over it.

+1.

Those who adapt will prosper, those who don't.. sink.

[Roberts]

Indeed : Much like a time, when The Pirates were " on the downfall " was due to fishing... They survived... But, plundering was not the same : But , again admin pulled through and made Skirmish : So perhaps they will bring something out to stop Bountys! Only time will tell? Maybe a voodoo curse!

So basically , keep moving forward!

[Stan Rogers]

@Stan
Solely from what you write, I suppose you got a Goldsmith you no longer operate (I have not checked, I assure you). So, in the case I am not mistaken, can you tell me your current goldsmith level, the next level cost and how much each gold bars currently costs for you?

I am in construction for lvl 15 GS. Do the calculations to how much capital and GB are needed for my next u/g.

If one is to calculate the amount of ships needed to keep production going and the profit made on a days sales, my initial numbers based on a profit margin of 500gc/bar, I would earn a little over 4M/day gc. Avg price currently is closer 250 gc profit/bar so half the profit margin equals a little over 2 mil/day gross profit. If I want to earn 75 gc/ bar more, it will cost me the equivalent of about 150 M gc rough numbers of which 110M needed is in GB form.

My problem is, after investing up to lvl 15 in a GS, I cannot earn close to what I could have if that gc had been spent in ship/captains. If I depend on using the GS solely as a form of income, there will never be enough GS or GB to make another jump.
If I lose 1 shipment to skirmish, it is very feasible to lose up 50% of my daily intake in a few short minutes depending on amount of GB carried.

I think it is almost impossible to consider turning "professional" Gold Smith and rely in it's income with the margins this tight.

[Hawk]

@Stan
Solely from what you write, I suppose you got a Goldsmith you no longer operate (I have not checked, I assure you). So, in the case I am not mistaken, can you tell me your current goldsmith level, the next level cost and how much each gold bars currently costs for you?

I am in construction for lvl 15 GS. Do the calculations to how much capital and GB are needed for my next u/g.

If one is to calculate the amount of ships needed to keep production going and the profit made on a days sales, my initial numbers based on a profit margin of 500gc/bar, I would earn a little over 4M/day gc. Avg price currently is closer 250 gc profit/bar so half the profit margin equals a little over 2 mil/day gross profit. If I want to earn 75 gc/ bar more, it will cost me the equivalent of about 150 M gc rough numbers of which 110M needed is in GB form.

My problem is, after investing up to lvl 15 in a GS, I cannot earn close to what I could have if that gc had been spent in ship/captains. If I depend on using the GS solely as a form of income, there will never be enough GS or GB to make another jump.
If I lose 1 shipment to skirmish, it is very feasible to lose up 50% of my daily intake in a few short minutes depending on amount of GB carried.

I think it is almost impossible to consider turning "professional" Gold Smith and rely in it's income with the margins this tight.

Hm.. take out a loan, or several?

[Captain Jack]

You need 150M for your next level or 50 days based on your profit. In my opinion loans is the way to go here.

Since a bulk of players is struggling with Goldsmiths, perhaps we could issue the gold bars price boost (this is needed for 1)Greater gold bars stock at market 2)Improved gold bars trade) prematurely.

If we want to be sincere though, even this 3M profit is better than any trade routes. And it should be. It is the investment and risk involved that makes it to deserve to be better.

However, we provide no guarantees on this; this is why you,the players, get to decide after all on how to play. Why anyone should blame us? For providing the feature? Or because we overpriced it (not a widespread opinion)? You knew that it is going to cost.

[Yosarian]

CJ - my response to your query

let me start by explaining that i define merchant as not just someone who trades as a primary means of game playing, but also as a player with over 200 ships, meaning they are a significant merchant

1. Ships Market – merchant neutral – not detrimental to me but of no benefit either – if you consider the cost of a credit 190,000 (I know there has been debate on this but I am using the current rate for purchasing credits as the only way I know how to value them) there is no reason to buy an LMM for 1 credit (or 190,000) when I can build one for 75,000 plus material – conversely – building an LMM and getting 1 credit for it worth 160,000 (the best rate I can get for credits) is not really worth the time and effort given the turn around time
2. Bank expansion – merchant neutral - not detrimental but of no real benefit either – as stated getting to a point where I can take advantage of this feature is an investiment that does not seem to be worthwhile
3. Avonmora Herald – merchant neutral
4. Fishing – merchant neutral in its current state – as it stands there is no benefit to fishing, more money can be made with any ship on the more profitable trading routes – there may be 509 fleeting doing it but they are all losing out on potential revenue
5. Skirmish attacks – anti merchant, but only minimally so – obviously the bigger merchant you are the bigger target, but realistically this is nuisance level hits and of no real consequences – as an attacker, I feel the same way, I see minimal benefit to it and do not use it
6. Bounties – Merchant neutral – effects all players the same way – I guess you could argue a merchant is a bigger target than most for some voodoo but that’s not an argument I want to get into


I consider the following to be anti-merchant
1. Every ship must have a captain – I understand the logic behind this but it has had an adverse effect on how money needs to be spent, especially for larger players
2. plundering does not give you a captain if you have aver 200 ships – why am I being punished for being successful within the game – as a larger merchant I no longer have any reason to ever plunder a ship unless it’s a highly leveled warship (Brig or above) – if I plunder any merchant under a LMM I have to sell it immediately (at 70% of value) as it is not worth using if I have to captain it – even if I keep the ship, an L1 or 2 LMM is not worth that much if I still have to captain it – additionally, there is the potential of having to spend large amounts of cash to safeguard my fleet now from FJ/HN attacks as I will not only lose the ship, but the captain as well

note, the last pro-merchant change was the original fishing mod

i can continue to fund my growth (either with loans or organically through profit), but at a 300+ day breakeven ROI you have to admit it is not a strong business model

please let me know if you need more information on any of these

[Mr. Rothschild]

I've previously stated my dislike for the voodoo option on bounties and I still disagree with it. However to address the issue of more ways to earn income i'll use it as an example.

With the bounty system in place, I will be giving out more loans as there is now a method to deter people from defaulting on them. Now I may not collect my owed fees but I can make sure players lose more than their original loan, which would satisfy me just fine.

Now for the profit earning capability for others. If I had a defaulted loan, I would simply place a bounty on the customer. Allowing for easy profit for those wishing to collect. My bounties would reflect cost of the action, risk involved, and profit. If I wanted to place a voodoo bounty to cast levi's, I would payout each cast at 2-2.5M. As it stands the bounty board shows little profit due to players not offering appropriate payment for the deed.

[Captain Jack]

We could make debt-related bounties. Bounties that once the linked debt is cleared, will be removed.

Example:
1)Captain Jack owns Mr. Rothchild 30M gc but whistles to the other side and does not pay a dime.

2)Mr. Rothchild puts up a bounty for Captain Jack at 250k per plunder win, 10M available budget and links it to the debt. Mr.Rothchild gets to select an extra option:
Automatic lift conditions. Since this is a debt, Mr.Rothchild can define what terms are acceptable to retract the bounty. Let's suppose that Mr. Rothchild is seeking a payment of up to 50% in 3 days.
Mr. Rothchild pays 10,300,000 gc for this bounty (just like any other bounty).
The bounty is created but is NOT activated yet. Instead, it enters a 3 days wait time as Mr.Rothchild selected.

3)Cpt Jack receives a new event that Bounty Hunters are after his skin for the debt of 30M towards Mr.Rothchild. He has 3 days to pay Mr.Rothchild or the bounty will be published. If he manages to meet the terms (pay 15M) then the bounty is canceled (10M are returned to Mr.Rothchild, the fees are not returned for anti-cheat measurements). If he does not meet the full terms, then the bounty starts once the deadline is met.

Points for consideration:
-No second thoughts will be allowed; once a bounty is put, then only the targeted man will be able to stop it by meeting the demands. This will allow more straightforward action.
-Not sure how good this will work, but it certainly can spice things up.