Bounty System discussion

[Most Lee Harmless]

I am rather down on the latest 'upgrade'..the so-called 'bounties' : all very nice, but its just the latest 'upgrade' which has no positive impact for my game play : its just another negative : I dont need to pay others to fight my wars or battles, but it provides plenty of opportunity for others to have their fights with me performed by third parties : its a coward option for losers; but hey, thats progress it seems.

The last positive upgrade was fishing : a means to earn some coin : but that got nerfed by another 'upgrade' and hey ho, was nuetered.

I do think the game developers are missing a valuable point : some-one, somewhere, has to create new wealth for all the others to steal : or else its the same coin just circulating round and around.

I built a hide-out ( investment), levelled up the mansion ( investment), built a bank ( investment) leveled it up ( investment), built a gold smith ( investment), levelled it up to 13 ( more investment, about a billions worth) and at the end of it? Bank is useless as it cant recover debts, so why lend... goldsmith cant make bars at a price that justifies the risk of shipping them for sale cos of skirmish and the risk of total cargo loss. Unless I invest another billion.. but where is that billion coming from? here is the math on goldsmiths : every new level reduces the making price of a bar by 75gc : if the upgrade costs 75million : thats 1,000,000 bars need to be made and sold to get that cost back : thats right : 1 million bars. the upgrade to level 14 will cost over 110million. So, 1.5million bars will need to be made and sold to cover that. But hey, no need to make it too easy to make an honest coin, is there?

The game has so many ways to milk the coin I have earned, but seems hellbent on not only reducing my income, but finding new ways to lose it as well. I'm stumped to know exactly how I am meant to expand, progress or otherwise enjoy this game anymore. Unless I dump all my ships save a few SoWs and go play pirate with all the rest, which dont appeal, cos I'll just be another minnow chasing those same few coins going round, and around, and around.

Anyhow, just my thoughts at this moment.

[Mr. Rothschild]

I don't mind the addition or idea behind the bounty board. I can come up with a few good uses for it. One being paying someone to make the life of a delinquent loan client rather unpleasant.

I do however strongly disagree with the ability to post a voodoo bounty. This will be a solid game wrecker for many.

[Most Lee Harmless]

the bounty board isnt bad : its just the thing thats its one more drain on my time/resources and I aint seeing anything that is going to improve my resources/income : unless I invest more billions, but I dont see where anyone is supposed to be earning those billions from anymore as every 'upgrade' seems to act to reduce income or increase expense and/or risk of loss.

[Isabelle]

I will have to agree - the bounty board is a good idea but requires some refinement in my opinion.

The voodoo casting seems a little ridiculous: why would I waste my voodoo cards (that I can sell for credits) or my precious turns to only get 10k out of it. Unless you already have bad blood with the player - but then wouldn't you want him to know that it's coming from you so that he may fix or retaliate as he sees fit. I could just put up a bounty and then cast away my voodoo on the player incognito... making all untraceable. That's not right.

Furthermore, if you are posting a bounty because the player is delinquent in a loan, you are out the loan money & the bounty... but unless you warn the player in question, he will have no idea why is name is up there and therefore no reason to pay back the loan (and less gold because he keeps getting attacked).

I think there should be a worthwhile reason behind a bounty - not just because somebody looked at your donkey the wrong way! Let the players know who is behind the bounty request or why his name is up so that he may rectify the situation that got the bounty on his head.
It's hard enough to make an honest living without somebody putting a bounty on your head because his danger points were high and you plundered his fleet!

I am also worried that newer players might see it as an easy opportunity to make gold without understanding the possibility of the "old bear" theory.

I am just saying... accountability and refinement.

[Roberts]

I do however strongly disagree with the ability to post a voodoo bounty. This will be a solid game wrecker for many.

In one way - I do agree with this , Voodoo Jobs should be asked for privately with Mercenary's ; I like the bounty board, don't get me wrong, it brings more " profit " as danik would call it, into my bank... ( Which I also don't give loans for the same reason)

So maybe cancel the Voodoo ability part Skirmish and Plunder will do just fine if you ask me.?

I would not cast Thieving magpie on danik for 10,000 ; Maybe 500,000 per throw : Due to the danger involved... lol

[Captain Jack]

First of all, some myth busting:

The last positive upgrade was fishing

Now, that's unfair! Really unfair. Fishing was implemented in July 09,2015. Since then, there have been more than 100 updates/fixes/implementations and among them 3 major features:
-Bank Exchange
-Ship Market
-Bounty System

If you refer to it strictly as means to create new coin, then I will redirect you to demographics page and the total gold in the game now which is:
Total Gold Coins (Hand/Nations/Banks/Buried): 24.26B

If you monitor this figure there, you will notice that it increases daily. This figure is of course relative to active players in the game. However, there it stands, 24B for the taking. These are funds just sitting there. Why create more? It will drop the value of the existing gold coins. We currently need more gold sinkers not more gold earners. Once the gold sinking is greater, we can explore more gold earning features.

Regarding voodoo casting, bounties can be ignored if the price is too low. I can understand the scepticism of how new players are going to use it. We could add a warning for all new comers that want to use the system, a warning that will mention something like this:
"WARNING: Executing bounties against other players can easily get you in trouble. Consider your moves carefully to avoid nasty surpises if a victimized player decides to counterattack."

It needs a better touch perhaps, I am open to your suggestions.

After this point, once a newcomer is properly instructed, then it is fair game.

Besides newcomers, I do not see a real problem. Is it something that is not being done already? What is the difference if I pay in a private deal 10M to someone to make the life of target player miserable? These are deals that have been taking place already, prior to the system ofc.

As for pricing, it is obvious that poorly priced bounties are just a waste of 3% of the total price. No one is obviously going to waste a Call Leviathan card for 50k. A newcomer perhaps.

This is however something that we can improve. We can set minimums for each card, so that newcomers will not be tricked. It can beimplemented fast too. For example, we can require a minimum of 500K for each Leviathan in order to register the bounty in first place. If you are interested for such a development and you find it more fair, feel free to propose values on the cards you think they need it.

[Most Lee Harmless]

Bank Exchange : requires a level 10-15 bank : thats 1000-1500 credits alone, and many millions in coin and bars for the build costs.
Ship market : I've already posted my views on that : its slow, unwieldy, and impractical for trying to run any kind of ship-broking trade as the waiting period makes any kind of sizable turnover of builds a long time-consuming business. I've just dumped, in the past week, some 75 good quality ships : I sold them to the ship-wright cos 70% of their value now was a better option than waiting weeks for a possible few credits on them, assuming they did actually sell then.
Bounty System : yet another risk factor I have to incorporate into my business plan : same with skirmish : same with the forthcoming plunder rule changes : same with voodoo cost reductions : same with having a war on : same with maintaining influence for my nations needs : all has to be considered when I work out where I am going to make any coin to expand, to invest into new coin-making ventures : I would love a level 20 Goldsmith : but for that,. I need to make a billion gc from somewhere : i would love a level 20 bank : for that, i need another billion or more : I would love a level 20 Academy when that comes in : again, where am I going to make the coin for that? Lots of gold-sinkers, yes.. but first I need to the gold to sink : that's my issue. I';ve already sunk billions, thank-you very much.

[Captain Jack]

Look at if from another perspective:
-A bank or a goldsmith or an academy later,are indestructuble assets. This is why they are more expensive.
-A bank is the only system out there that can generate you profit without the need of turns or ships. This is why it is so expensive.
-Ships at the other hand are very cheap and can produce more profit for the same coin. They are prone to attack though.

No one actually forces you to build a bank or a goldsmith and in fact, we are discouraging everyone to do so as game devs. These are features to make your gold coin move rather than keep it in a hole. How much profit will you get if you keep them in a hole? You will get 0. So any profit is better than this. Before you quickly judge this, just remember how much gold was buried before the launch of the hideout and how much it is now.

As for risk factors, I will agree. The more players involved, the greater the risk.

Ships Market works, I have published some stats quickly after the launch of it which proves that it works. Now, if you have to use the shipwright, this is not a failure of the ships market. Both are options presented to you. Obviously, if you are in a rush, the shipwright might be a better option. The presense of the ship market adds strategy in this part.

[Roberts]

500k per call Lev as a bounty... No.

It should be the base value of a card... As in, it must cover the current card : Which, you should agree on lets say the base value is 10 credits. Lets say one credit is 200,000 x 10 = 2 Million... Then it is up to the person how much "extra" the player gets...

10 M to make someones game life miserable? Bit cheap aint it, I would ask for at least 25 M. Regarding the Warning...

" Please Note : These players that have Bounty's on there heads, have it for a reason - They are Dangerous outlaws/Victorious Plunderers! .. Cast one Spell and they can play you down - As Sir Henry Would say 'Don't Start None - Wont be none!'

[Most Lee Harmless]

Taken individually, the upgrades are each unremarkable.. its the cumulative effect which, to me, is on the negative side of the ledger : I'd like to see a positive side added, not just another gold sinker : my choice is, currently, go the big fleet trader route and suffer daily plunders hoping to make more than I lose : or go small fleet raider and have fun but dont develop beyond that : the middle ground has been chipped away : so, my problem is I dont fit either of the binary choices being left to players now. In which case, I'll do neither and not do much more at all. Others may feel differently, but I'm not playing their game-plan, I'm trying to play my own.