Guild or Nation? : some ideas for the future

[fullfathomfive]

I feel compelled to respond to your profound comments regarding this subject Sir High King of Change. You suggest we ask ourselves 'what wud bcome of the new players'. So I'll follow your suggestion and ask myself... Who are these new players? The ones who choose to stay past the PG entrance point? As of this writing, of the past 100 sign-ups there were aprox 50 new potential players that stayed around long enough to fiddle with the controls. We know this as if you fiddle with the controls your going to gain some fame. So not bad so far, as 50% fiddlers in today's internet game offerings seems like a fairly good number. How many fiddled with more than the basic control point. That total is now about 25, we lost half (50%) of our fiddlers and it's a given, perhaps a few will come back to fiddle more at a later time. Of those 25, there are 10 who acquired more than 100 fame. Fame is easily obtained by a single attack on a NPC fleet or buying stock if you follow the merchant path. Of those 10, 4 were interested enough in our game to join a guild.

Safety I do not believe is foremost in the minds of a player who joins a pirate game. There are farm growing online games for the safety minded that seem to appeal more to this group. You stated 'Most players focus on economy/traderoutes at first(usually again)'. I would suggest to you that most new players join a pirate game to be a pirate, not traders. They have little idea of the trading aspect nor were they lead here by choosing PG to play a trader game. I certainly would concede the entrance point needs attention. Perhaps even separate from the main game. Redesigned as a place where sea battles can quickly be waged as well as the concept of trading taught on a much smaller scale. Soon it's pirate graduation day and into the main level of play where intelligent choices regarding pirate, guild, trader, can be made from the skills previously learned.

Back to the original thread discussion. Nations/Guilds when combined in a game can cause divided loyalty's. I do understand the posts that believe this is a good aspect, as after all it's a pirate game and most pirates were faced at one time or another with the prospect of divided loyalty's. In PG however it can also cause less sea battles, which is opposite from the direction the game developers indicate they wish to go. If guilds are not a place to grow and build loyalty's, then what use do they serve? A training ground can be built at the entrance. Voodoo, gold, ships, can not be transferred among guild players. Gold deposits within a guild not available. What use do guilds serve then if not for building loyalty's which provide protection against common enemy threats? I personally do not see divided loyalty's being a positive aspect of the PG game and the nation/guild combination being very cumbersome.

[Captain Jack]

+1 Quetzalcoatl

You got some talent in writing. Hopefully we can get to see more of your posts in dev forums.

[fullfathomfive]

Your comment is much appreciated Captain Jack.

[Most Lee Harmless]

I've been thinking about the responses to my original comments and also watching how the new hide-out features have affected the game-play overall : my conclusion is that the nation, as we have known it, is being rendered less important and less useful for the bigger, wealthier players : in the past much influence was bought because it was cheaper than burying your ill-gotten gains : port control also mattered much more for the 'multi-fleet-traders', with the trade bonuses multiplied by such large fleets : but hide-outs have changed the game for that strategy : we have new places to sink our surplus gold/profits, places which offer a much better return on investment than buying influence which bleeds away day by day, requiring even more gold spent to maintain its levels. And for what? A small bonus on trade if we use the 'right' ports for our trade. As an example : I spend 40million to buy 4mil influence : every day, I must now spend a further 400k to keep that level. Or : I spend 40million upgrading a goldsmith and make a profit instead : a profit which will grow greater with every upgrade : do I need worry if I dont get the small trade bonus on my sales? Not really, I'm still ahead : What of my other trade fleets? To answer, why do I need them? In truth, I can run a hide-out and keep a GS running with 3 fleets : Any more is just a plunder risk with little overall return, especially when skirmish is up and running : So, do I need a nation at all? And my conclusion is: No, I don't : it takes a lot and gives little to nothing in return for that : so, that's my thinking : that nations are history, economic power that will transcend them is the future, and that economic power will fly whatever flag it flies for a whim, not for a necessity.

[Captain Jack]

It's a development forum, so I will reply. Not sure if you are seeking for my position here so excuse me if I am derailing the topic.

-Influence is mostly a gold sinker - indeed. The current levels might be too much, indeed but these are relative to competition. The fiercer the competition, the more it will cost.

However, a port has many more than you listed.

A port is mostly important for the following reasons:
1)Bonuses on sales (2.5% on Gold Bars, 10% for everything else).
A good example for this gain, using gold bars you mention, would be:
A level 10 goldsmith produces 200 gold bars at 2,337 each. Or 11,217,600 per day in gold value. If you sell them on average at 2800 gold coins, then the gold equivelant should be 13,440,000. If you add 2.5% Duke bonus here, then you earn 336k more.
-If you also sell them on a trade route and combine it with a Company card, then you should add 2.5% or 336k more.

2)Cheaper Ship construction
225k less per SoL for example.

3)Taxes
Best port right now, produces 2.2millions per day
Worse port right now, produces 560k per day

4)It increases the nation desirability for new citizens
This has many indirect benefits.

So, a big player, alone, if he uses a port and treats it well, he can profit a lot from it. Perhaps more than anything else. It is competition that limits profits and for a good reason. This is why more than one person is usually needed to control a port.

[Most Lee Harmless]

Aye, there are some benefits in port control : my point was as a return for the gold invested, they dont compete with the new hide-out benefits : 2.5% Duke bonus depends on you being a Duke and selling into your nations port : to gain (and keep) that status and control is a big coin investment : I think spending that coin on another level for your GS would more than compensate for the lost bonus, indeed, it would generate continuing daily profit, as opposed to the influence reqd to stay in control of a port needing constant refreshing and being a continuing daily cost. Taxes fill the nation treasury, not the players, unless and until the nation grants a payout : profits fill the players treasury today.
I think we are still in 'buy influence/ gain port control' mode out of habit : multiple port ownership is rendered meaningless as mass trading of the old high-plunder-risk multiple-fleet style becomes less profitable in comparison with new low-risk and more secure income streams from hide-outs.
There will still be a place for nations and port control : I see it becoming more of a 'trophy' thing though...