same old stan

[Leo]

These are risks that really are not as big of a deal when you take factory farms out of the picture. Salmonella breeds in tight spaces packed with chickens. Wanna avoid it? Buy free range, or even better, buy from your neighbor who has chickens or buy from a local farm. The same goes with beef and milk. You'd be playing poker with your life if you were to drink raw milk from factory cows. But if you go to a local farm and get raw milk from them you'll most likely be fine. I grew up drinking the stuff and never got sick once. Never tried pasteurized milk until I was maybe 8 years old. I still prefer raw for most applications, especially good for coffee or hot cocoa. Meat, eggs, milk, they are mass produced and you don't get good quality from them. Cows should be eating grass, not corn, and should be able to graze and not be shoved into stalls. Same with chickens. But that doesn't make the big guys their money so that's not how it's ever going to be

[Lil Lola]

None of my neighbors own chickens. Point is no matter what you do you run a risk. Unfortunately with the size of our population, commercial farming is the go to. So maybe instead of damning them to hell..make it more viable for them to switch from some of their old practices to new ones that are better for health overall.

I mean you talk about pasteurization right? It’s now a common practice that started as a call for safety because of illness. Not like it can not be done.

You’ve never had a food borne illness? Not even Norovirus? Odd.

[Lachlan]

None of my neighbors own chickens. Point is no matter what you do you run a risk. Unfortunately with the size of our population, commercial farming is the go to. So maybe instead of damning them to hell..make it more viable for them to switch from some of their old practices to new ones that are better for health overall.

I mean you talk about pasteurization right? It’s now a common practice that started as a call for safety because of illness. Not like it can not be done.

You’ve never had a food borne illness? Not even Norovirus? Odd.

Is it that common to get a food borne illness because I've only ever gotten food poisoning twice as far as I'm aware. The first time was my fault because I didn't cook my fried rice long enough, I thought it looked undercooked but I was like eh I'll be alright lol. Then I had a few mouthfuls and then my stomach started hurting. The other time I got food poisoning was from a restaurant because I don't think they cooked the food long enough. I don't think it's that common to get food borne diseases, especially if you cook the food for long enough.

As for chickens, my family used to have Isa brown chickens not for the meat but to get fresh high quality eggs. I would highly recommend if you have the room getting a small chicken house and a few chickens. It's also fairly easy to make a chicken house as far as I'm aware but we bought the chicken house. Buying pet chickens at least in Australia is quite cheap and the feed is quite cheap as well and of course you don't have to pay for water. General medicines for chickens are quite cheap as well and if the chickens die you can easily replace them.
One of our chickens produced huge double yolk eggs like 20 times in a row which is very very rare. Now that I am back to eating supermarket bought eggs, the eggs my chickens produced tasted noticeably better and there is the plus side that you (hopefully) would not be abusing those chickens so you know that your eggs are coming from an ethical source.

[Dmanwuzhere]

Yeah, I don't know what ethical food is.
I don't care how a chicken, cow or pig is raised or slaughtered.
As long as it's harvested, packaged, and delivered in a manner that keeps me healthy.
I understand that some folks are more emotional, but a starving Ethiopian wouldn't care about the living part
of an animal. They would only be into the cooking of it,

People buy and raise animals for profit so that you don't have to.
I've been on a farm with cows, chickens, ducks, dogs, goats, horses, and a few other animals.
There were over a dozen of us there, and even if we wanted to abuse the animals, where the hell would you find the time?
The idea that somewhere the intent of a farm, industrial or residential is to abuse animals is laughable.

The goal is to raise and slaughter animals for food.
I tagged the ear of my first cow there. That's basically piercing the ear and leaving a numbered earring in its ear.
I treated that cow like a pet and had emotional ties to it.
So at 8 one night, I was told to get ready because we were taking a trip.
We ended up at the place where my cow was released into a fenced chute with a feed trough at the end of it.
My cow began eating, and a guillotine fell and chopped its head off.
I was taught then that it was a business and there were no pet cows.

At that same farm, I had to shoot and bury my dog Sam because he kept killing the ducks.
Another lesson.
Train your pets because they have responsibilities, too.

You can say that's horrible, etc, but at the end of the day, animals raised as food are not pets, and pets must be made responsible by their owners.
If you mistreat animals meant for food, you will have a lighter animal and one that's hard to control.
No farmer is going to want either.

[Lil Lola]

Dman I think it’s the tight living quarters with larger animals being shackled and fattened which makes them tender and then being bludgeoned to death that has people in an uproar. A guillotine is a swift death (unless something goes wrong) unfortunately not everyone has the same practices as what you have experienced.

[Lil Lola]

On another note I wanna buy you one of those mini cows Dman. You can have a furry pet cow.

[Meliva]

Dman I think it’s the tight living quarters with larger animals being shackled and fattened which makes them tender and then being bludgeoned to death that has people in an uproar. A guillotine is a swift death (unless something goes wrong) unfortunately not everyone has the same practices as what you have experienced.

Think most factory farms use a device called a stunner that basically just, punches a hole straight in the cows head that more or less kills them instantly. I never heard of them being beaten to death.

[Leo]

I mean the question is, is it ethical to breed and raise an animal exclusively for the purpose of killing and eating it without letting it first use the potential of its life? Like imagine being born and trapped in a tiny box your whole life and fed one thing and it makes you sick. And then when you're fully grown they punch a hole in your head. Maybe death is the best thing for it at this point, but maybe they shouldn't have been subjected to that in the first place

[Lil Lola]

Honey if you can stomach it…there are videos… one was at one of those tourist trap dairy farms called Fair Oaks Farms. Caught on video, lead to an investigation and a public apology from the owner. If you don’t want to watch the video there are articles. That seems to be the most scandalous considering families being their kids. Young cows being thrown around. Smacked in the head by the milk feeding device. That was 2019..the animals died from the abuse. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/after-unde ... -products/

Happens in other counties.. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5ygm3rzezpo

I also read Ozzy Osbourne’s autobiography where he stated he worked at a slaughterhouse and he and others abused the animals. He confessed and was apologetic..remorseful. It happens more then we know.

Laws against animal abuse are relatively new.

[Meliva]

ah I see where the confusion came from. You're talking about how some folks do things to abuse animals that are not part of the job. yeah, some workers will do things they are not supposed to it's sad. I don't think they're hired and told to abuse the animals, just feed them this, kill them with the stunner, etc.

I thought you were saying that the factories beat the cows as part of the process and it's a standard practice. Still messed up some workers abuse them though.

My dad used to work at a meat packing plant. I think he said his job was to hose the meat trucks for the most part. Told me he would take 3 showers a day and still stink to high hell. It's dirty, nasty work.

as for ethics, I ultimately care first and foremost for the priority of humanity and it's interests. I think it's a bit backwards for me to care and want to help farm animals, when there are humans who need help as well. And unless we build something that can generate food like the replicator from star trek or that device from cloudy with a chance of meatballs, I don't see us being able to get rid of the meat industry.