same old stan

[Meliva]

I don't see them as wanting to expand. More land is harder to defend. They've also repeatedly given back land they previously taken. Not to mention, the only way they could safely take all that land, is if they wipe all the locals out. And I do mean ALL, not just Hamas. Now some may argue they are trying to do such, but frankly, if they are, they really s**k at this whole genocide thing. Pretty sure if that was their goal, they'd have done it by now, what with all the advantages they have in military and supplies.

My apologies then, thought you were referring to mine. Ham wouldn't be bad in mac and cheese, but that's up to you. You really should buy some sort of good sausages to mix into your mac and cheese in the future though. Mac and cheese is already good, but adding some good sort of meat into it just makes it from a good side dish to a solid meal.

[Leo]

Well that's the thing. I've heard a lot of people say that if they wanted to commit genocide they would be doing it faster and more effectively. But if they did that, wouldn't it then be viewed as genocide by most people and they would lose their support and probably their funding for weapons? So to their credit, if they wanted to commit genocide they are doing it perfectly. Fast enough to be effective but slow enough to convince everyone else it's not genocide. Obviously this is all up to speculation and we have no clue what Netanyahu's real motives are and we never will. Here's a map of Palestinian land over the course of half a century. I haven't checked into if any land has been given back yet but it is not a significant amount if it has.


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[Meliva]

you're just looking at that land, but not all the land Israel has had. They gave land back to Egypt, for example off the top of my head. Also, in 1946 there was no Palestine or country with that name. That land was never theirs. It was the ottomons before it was taken by the British, and then later given to the Israelis.

[Mack]

So, here's what I think. I think that Israel is using the October 7th attack as an opportunity to expand further into Palestine. For so long we were calling for a ceasefire. We finally got a ceasefire and it is not being respected at all. There are attrocities being committed by both Hamas and the IDF, that is true, but at this point Hamas is less of a government and more of a rogue militia. It is unnecessary to be killing journalists trying to report, killing doctors trying to help, and killing children searching for help, all very intentionally. Israel is using excessive force. But this is why I ceasefire - a real one - is needed. it would benefit everyone.

Are you sure it's not got anything to do with the decades of attacks carried out by the Muslims? I wonder how many rockets and missiles have been launched at Israel in the last 40 years. I wonder who launched them I wonder where Hamas gets it's money I wonder why those people want Hamas to attack Israel........

[Mack]

Well that's the thing. I've heard a lot of people say that if they wanted to commit genocide they would be doing it faster and more effectively. But if they did that, wouldn't it then be viewed as genocide by most people and they would lose their support and probably their funding for weapons? So to their credit, if they wanted to commit genocide they are doing it perfectly. Fast enough to be effective but slow enough to convince everyone else it's not genocide. Obviously this is all up to speculation and we have no clue what Netanyahu's real motives are and we never will. Here's a map of Palestinian land over the course of half a century. I haven't checked into if any land has been given back yet but it is not a significant amount if it has.


Edited to fit image

Look it up Palestine has never been a real state . On top of that, does this map make any sense to you at all in reality?

[Lil Lola]

Mack ya speak the truth sometimes but sometimes people don’t want to hear it or they don’t care.

[Leo]

By real do you mean recognized by the UN? Because if that's what you mean then I got news for you about pretty much every country ever... Look up what year a country like England or France became a country officially. Does that mean they didn't exist before that?

[Lachlan]

Israel and Palestinians I think mutually want to wipe each other out to be honest.

Israel has been around for 75 years roughly. During that time, every war they have been in, they were attacked first, aside from the 6 day war I believe. Which, in their defense, they started because they claim they noticed their neighbors gathering forces near their border, and rather then wait for them to hit first again, like they always do, they struck first that time.

Do you really believe that a country that has almost never started any of their wars with their neighbors, and has routinely given back land they won in said wars to their neighbors, wants to wipe them out? Or that if Israel wanted to wipe out the people in the Gaza strip, they wouldn't be doing so much more effectively? Hell, the civilian death count for that war is actually incredibly low given this is urban warfare.

Or that Israel, if they wanted to wipe them out, would give them the gaza strip in the first place, and then leave them alone with no attacks until they hit first? Tell me, what the hell of any of that, makes you think they want to wipe them out? They want them to leave them the hell alone, but they keep trying to kill them all, and Israel has to beat them back.

Also, notice you didn't answer my question. So I'll ask again. If you had a gun, and a crazy man with babies strapped to himself wielding a knife charged at you claiming he was gonna gut you, then your family, then the rest of the neighborhood, would you shoot him knowing you may very likely kill a baby doing so, or just let him commit his massacre? This is important, because Hamas does things like this, they hide behind civilians while launching attacks. Should Israel not hit back, because civilians die, and let them attack them freely? Even if it would result in their deaths? What would you do? Me personally, I'd shoot. I wouldn't like doing it, and I'd feel bad for the babies, but I ain't gonna let someone gut me or my family if I can stop it. What about you?

I said previously that Israel in the past has not been the one to start things and they have been mostly defending themselves. However, in the leadup to this current war Israel had been trying to provoke a reaction. HAMAS then attacked and they all hate each other now so that is why I said they wanted to wipe each other out. I suppose I should have made it clearer I mean now not historically.

I did not answer your hypothetical scenario because I thought it was just a hypothetical scenario that you were using as an example. Yes I would shoot that person in this made up scenario except I have never shot an actual gun before so most likely I would be killed.

[Lil Lola]

By real do you mean recognized by the UN? Because if that's what you mean then I got news for you about pretty much every country ever... Look up what year a country like England or France became a country officially. Does that mean they didn't exist before that?

That’s True. Taiwan isn’t recognized by the UN and it used to be until Beijing took a power trip.

[Leo]

And china still claims them as their own despite them having full independence. Just goes to show that borders and names are just human constructs that can be argued by anyone for any reason, and they will be right. Because they are imaginary. It's like arguing over what color something is, there's no right answer