Moving Soldiers with Ships

[Stan Rogers]

I defer my opinion until I see what the new trade route rework is going to offer. Multiple ports of call and perhaps more control to what cargo can be loaded/unloaded will certainly influence my decision on how to cap plant produced goods.

[Sir Henry Morgan]

I concur with that - plantation goods should be moved out and sold at other ports; local ports could purchase for the criminally cheap price of 1 gc and the fleets would arrive to haul it away!

There is a downside to that. Plantations was intended to replace game production of resources.

There are a couple of things to really make plantations force to transport their goods. This is what I would do.

1.) Ports no longer sell resources.
2.) Ports buy and consume resources.
3.) Ports cannot buy resources that are made from a plantation within the same port.
4.) Plantations can produce any resource selected by the plantation owner.
5.) Plantations can only produce 1 resource type at a time.
6.) Plantations can change the resource it produces either once every 90 days or at a cost.
7.) Players can either sell their resources via the player market or transport and sell to another port.
8.) Port populations will need considerable resources to maintain populations. More Pop= More Resources Consumed
9.) Insufficient resources supplied to a port = population loss.


Of course this comes at the price that player market prices could be ridiculous. Which would of course make it difficult for new players starting out.

Of course there are things that can be done to mitigate that.

I could certainly get behind this idea.

[sXs]

I concur with that - plantation goods should be moved out and sold at other ports; local ports could purchase for the criminally cheap price of 1 gc and the fleets would arrive to haul it away!

There is a downside to that. Plantations was intended to replace game production of resources.

There are a couple of things to really make plantations force to transport their goods. This is what I would do.

1.) Ports no longer sell resources.
2.) Ports buy and consume resources.
3.) Ports cannot buy resources that are made from a plantation within the same port.
4.) Plantations can produce any resource selected by the plantation owner.
5.) Plantations can only produce 1 resource type at a time.
6.) Plantations can change the resource it produces either once every 90 days or at a cost.
7.) Players can either sell their resources via the player market or transport and sell to another port.
8.) Port populations will need considerable resources to maintain populations. More Pop= More Resources Consumed
9.) Insufficient resources supplied to a port = population loss.


Of course this comes at the price that player market prices could be ridiculous. Which would of course make it difficult for new players starting out.

Of course there are things that can be done to mitigate that.

WAY to complicated.

Several issues with this.

#1 As you stated "There is a downside to that. Plantations was intended to replace game production of resources" If port owners can choose the resource, then this becomes an issue. This would also destroy traditional trading and party trading. How would the price of the resource be determined?

#2 Ports no longer sell resources. The players market is what is causing a lot of the issues Eliminate the port market and this explodes. Again, this would destroy traditional and party trading.

#3 Port population tied directly to resources consumed. If port owners can choose which resource to produce, how can this be legitimately Maintained. Again this destroys trade. If you need to transport simply to maintain a population(resources consumed by population) then there is no trade, only maintaining like your workforce in plantations.

The easiest and most effective solution is this All profit's from Plantations, players markets, workers markets must be transported.

Example:
-Port Plantation A earns 500K gold coin per day in Aiora. Players Hideout is in St Marts. Which is where his bank is at.
-If the player wants to bank the gold, They must transport it back to their Hideout port.
-Exception to above would be any gc generated by the plantation, player market, worker market in Port Plantation A that is used to upgrade that plantation or any other future add ons in that port does not need to be transported. Each plantation would have a "Vault" or some mechanic that would hold all earning in that port. Size of the "Vault could either correlate directly to the size of the plantation or could be an additional Building in that port similar to the Hideout building mechanic. Upgradeable(GB sink, Turn based sink). Also, The creation of the "Vault" gives plantation raids a specific target which again makes coding the plantation raiding system much easier.

Now to the Soldier situation.... another "KISS" solution.

Why generate soldiers at all. Simply use the crews of the ships as your soldiers.
1. Eliminates so many issues
2. Already purchased. Already are on ships(transported)
3. No need to mess with or code for the generation.

If you want to have a rank based system, you only need to give a point system to the crew based on experience. Things that could affect experience. Battles won, Battles fought, trade routes completed, Days at sea. I am sure other things could be added for experienced/ rank based attacking mechanics.

It is simple. A lot of the mechanics needed are already in place.
1. Hire crew mechanic= soldiers. Crew already assigned to a ship/fleet
2.Experience. training. Some of this is already in place. Ships Journal could be expanded. Base mechanic is in place

The only things that would need to added would be a disembark feature for the raid. Experience parameters.

No need to reinvent the wheel here for this.

All of this helps to bring ships, seamanship, strategy, and sea battles, and...... wait for it............PIRATES!!!!! back into play. The very things that plantations have degraded. It helps solve that issue, makes transition to new upgrades easier, and gets Developers to the end goal without overcomplicating things.

We are all impressed with "The big shiny new thing" but sometimes it is not the best.

[DezNutz]

I concur with that - plantation goods should be moved out and sold at other ports; local ports could purchase for the criminally cheap price of 1 gc and the fleets would arrive to haul it away!

There is a downside to that. Plantations was intended to replace game production of resources.

There are a couple of things to really make plantations force to transport their goods. This is what I would do.

1.) Ports no longer sell resources.
2.) Ports buy and consume resources.
3.) Ports cannot buy resources that are made from a plantation within the same port.
4.) Plantations can produce any resource selected by the plantation owner.
5.) Plantations can only produce 1 resource type at a time.
6.) Plantations can change the resource it produces either once every 90 days or at a cost.
7.) Players can either sell their resources via the player market or transport and sell to another port.
8.) Port populations will need considerable resources to maintain populations. More Pop= More Resources Consumed
9.) Insufficient resources supplied to a port = population loss.


Of course this comes at the price that player market prices could be ridiculous. Which would of course make it difficult for new players starting out.

Of course there are things that can be done to mitigate that.

WAY to complicated.

Several issues with this.

#1 As you stated "There is a downside to that. Plantations was intended to replace game production of resources" If port owners can choose the resource, then this becomes an issue. This would also destroy traditional trading and party trading. How would the price of the resource be determined?

#2 Ports no longer sell resources. The players market is what is causing a lot of the issues Eliminate the port market and this explodes. Again, this would destroy traditional and party trading.

#3 Port population tied directly to resources consumed. If port owners can choose which resource to produce, how can this be legitimately Maintained. Again this destroys trade. If you need to transport simply to maintain a population(resources consumed by population) then there is no trade, only maintaining like your workforce in plantations.

The easiest and most effective solution is this All profit's from Plantations, players markets, workers markets must be transported.

Example:
-Port Plantation A earns 500K gold coin per day in Aiora. Players Hideout is in St Marts. Which is where his bank is at.
-If the player wants to bank the gold, They must transport it back to their Hideout port.
-Exception to above would be any gc generated by the plantation, player market, worker market in Port Plantation A that is used to upgrade that plantation or any other future add ons in that port does not need to be transported. Each plantation would have a "Vault" or some mechanic that would hold all earning in that port. Size of the "Vault could either correlate directly to the size of the plantation or could be an additional Building in that port similar to the Hideout building mechanic. Upgradeable(GB sink, Turn based sink). Also, The creation of the "Vault" gives plantation raids a specific target which again makes coding the plantation raiding system much easier.

I don't see how removing a ports ability to sell to players destroys party trading or traditional trading. Run your own plantation and transport to a different port to either sell to the port directly, sell via the player market, or store and party voodoo. If you can't run your own plantation, buy from the market. Plus, there is always fishing.

Players will have to make smart choices to make money. Additionally, as I said, there are ways to mitigate price gouging.


Port owners don't choose which resource is produced. Plantation owners choose thus allowing every resource to be produced at every port. Alternatively, we could eliminate the 1 resource at a time and change resource option and allow plantations owners to delegate fields to a specific resource. Thus they can change what they produce and how much simply by changing field allocations, which include producing all resources at a single plantation simultaneously.

As for the port population, there is likely already a formula, or one can be created to show the daily consumption rate of resources for a port by resource. 1 crate of resource X is needed for every X population. And this is done for every resource. Simply looking at your population will tell you how many resources you need to bring to port to help maintain it. Failure to meet the daily consumption can result in populations decreasing. And as the goods to maintain the port can't be made in the same port, hello, trade.


Again this is just me spit balling an idea.

[sXs]

I will answer each point.

"I don't see how removing a ports ability to sell to players destroys party trading or traditional trading. Run your own plantation and transport to a different port to either sell to the port directly, sell via the player market, or store and party voodoo. If you can't run your own plantation, buy from the market. Plus, there is always fishing."

Not everyone has a plantation. New players especially. Your own words here......"Of course this comes at the price that player market prices could be ridiculous. Which would of course make it difficult for new players starting out." I for one would like to see increased retention insteadof making things more difficult for new player. Restricting them to "fishing" severely limits their options to grow.


Port owners don't choose which resource is produced. Plantation owners choose thus allowing every resource to be produced at every port. Alternatively, we could eliminate the 1 resource at a time and change resource option and allow plantations owners to delegate fields to a specific resource. Thus they can change what they produce and how much simply by changing field allocations, which include producing all resources at a single plantation simultaneously.

Why?? What purpose does this serve? What this would do is remove even more ships and fleets from the game. I would simply produce all resources I need to run my plantation, in my plantation. As much as I complain about the players market, this eliminates the need for that as well. Players market serves to supply plantations primarily. This would eliminate that need AND the need to sail any ships at all. The goal should be to increase ships at sea not eliminate them.

As for the port population, there is likely already a formula, or one can be created to show the daily consumption rate of resources for a port by resource. 1 crate of resource X is needed for every X population. And this is done for every resource. Simply looking at your population will tell you how many resources you need to bring to port to help maintain it. Failure to meet the daily consumption can result in populations decreasing. And as the goods to maintain the port can't be made in the same port, hello, trade.

A few more points here. Port population is a nation mechanic, Not a plantation mechanic. Nations do not sail ships, nations do not have fleets. There is no way for a nation to supply the goods needed. I could see ways to resolve this, but there is no need to solve an issue that does not currently exist. It would only exist if implemented.

All of these would cause trade/ and ships to disappear faster than they have been. No need to sail ships to bring in any plantation resources..... simply allocate acres to produce what you need. No need to buy from players nmarket..... simply produce what you need.

Now I like the idea of tying things together for a more integrated game. I am all for that. There should be more of a crossover of nation play into plantation and port run functions like the port market supply. You are on the right track with that, but the approach you are taking would cause more issues than improve.

Now to my post/ suggestion in the making.

The goal/ my goal.... through all of my suggestions, has always been

#1 Player recruitment and retention. Making things easier for newer player to get a foothold in game.
#2 Increasing ships sailing, fleets sailing. The genesis of this game is in seafaring. We seem to be getting further and further away from that.
#3 Adding more game paths for players. I am excited for plantation raids to be added. It opens up another path.
#4 Balance. Nothing can survive without balance. With the advent of plantations and ship traits, the number of captains flying the black as a career path has almost zeroed out. They have been relegated to skirmish to survive. Yes there have been improvements to the skirmish mechanics and a very few hearty Pirates make a small modest living this way. But we have eliminated Ship raids on active players through ship traits

Traders and plantation owners face little to no risk anymore..... especially plantation owners.

That is why my approach to this is the way it is. It would bring more ships back to the game. With the advent of plantation raids and the requirement to actually transport the goods and profits you produce, it bring a bit of risk back into the game. It does not do anything to reduce trade, infact it increases it. It does not make things harder for new players, it gives them alternate career paths. It is enough of "The shiny New Thing" that it will help pique interest and improve retention..... and maybe even persuade a few of those old sea dogs to come back that CJ talked about.

We get to the same end...... just completely different approaches.

Why change everything when only a few things get you to the same end.

There are no issues with port markets. They are fine. Simply changing the requirement that plantations transport all or pert their goods will help rebalance. Increases trade instead of decreasing it.

No need to create new characters (soldiers) when there are probably tens of millions, or more, sailing the seas. you stated a ship would only carry the same number of soldiers as crew. You were almost there to your answer..... just needed to take the next step. Your crews are your soldiers. Solves the issue without adding a thing.

A plantation Vault solves several things in the new upgrade. It gives a specific target to code the raid towards. this does not specifically destroy any of the vast sums of gold upgrades cost (although some damage should be expected). It targets the output of the plantation.

Simplicity is best in almost every circumstance.

If you are trying to travel from Chicago to New York.... you do not go through Tokyo or Sydney. you take the most direct and simple path. End goal is reached both ways eventually, just one is more efficient.