Witch Doctors gameplay - manageable risk for everyone

[Most Lee Harmless]

Define what a Witch-Doctor is : there is the major problem because for the game to penalise them, the game must be able to recognise them. We might all KNOW what we think a WD is, but the game needs more than that : it must have set of metrics which define a WD. Which creates problem #2 : once that metric is set, WD's will just game around it. be careful that the chosen fix doesnt just move the problem along or worse, create a new bigger one.

[Kangaroo]

And there you have it, most encounter the same. Even in the unlikely event you lost equal to daily profit from trade, you are not likely to be raided again every single day.

Now, this is about "Witch Doctors" not pirates, or merchants. So back to the issue at hand.

Witch doctors cast purely to harm, not profit and with nothing at all to lose. This is the problem that needs to be rectified. The fix can not be tied to the number of ships one owns as this affects every other play style merchants and pirates alike.

Could not agree more

[Most Lee Harmless]

But if WD and pirate have the same characteristics : low ship count : attacks larger prey : casts voodoo but suffers little from return casts : how does the game differentiate between them? What if its a pirate who is being the WD? Its the 'why' behind the attacks that will matter, and thats something no game can figure out, no matter how clever the coding.

[Kangaroo]

But if WD and pirate have the same characteristics : low ship count : attacks larger prey : casts voodoo but suffers little from return casts : how does the game differentiate between them? What if its a pirate who is being the WD? Its the 'why' behind the attacks that will matter, and thats something no game can figure out, no matter how clever the coding.

Perhaps, if it's a pirate he has at least one fleet, something to be attacked.
If it's a witchdoctor he has no fleet, and any fluff fleet offered up to allow casting would killed so quickly it would bring him back to the first statement.

[Psychodad]

Sir Henry Morgan wrote:
Another thought -

Or - a witch doctor would lose their flag? Neither nation nor pirate be - a mission would be required to regain a flag. Perhaps in order to regain either a nation or pirate flag, a waiting period before one could begin missions would be started. They could also be locked out of banks until a flag was gained....


Another thought - totally different:

What if there were costs required to cast voodoo while you had no ships?

Perhaps tie it to gold bars - if a player has no ships at sea, each curse cast cost one gold bar - about 2000 - 2300 per cast. Maybe a gold bar for every turn required to cast a curse. (Personally I like this concept). Use 400 turns, plus your shaman is paid 400 gold bars. Just about 800k gold coin via gold bars.

Just thinking outside the box - I figure enough mud thrown at the wall perhaps something will stick.

A gold bar for every turn cast sounds good to me along with some of your other ideas, and none of them harm other play styles. +1

This suggestion seems logical, balanced and probably the easiest to code/implement.

+1

[William one eye]

Witch doctor acheivement,


If
( (ships on hand × 7)) + weekly skirmish attacks + weekly plunder attacks ) is less than weekly voodoo cast
In number of cards. You earn the witch doctor acheivement.

You can then wear your acheivement with pride or players that dislike witch doctors can shun you for it.

Each time a player earns this acheivement they earn a level.

So if you have witch doctored for 5 weeks, your acheivements say level 5 witch doctor, earned on day xxxx.

Now the witch doctor, is publically exposed, and has a higher risk for getting attacked by those that dislike witch doctors, or they can brag about it and try to sell their services.

[Dmanwuzhere]

Witch doctor acheivement,


If
( (ships on hand × 7)) + weekly skirmish attacks + weekly plunder attacks ) is less than weekly voodoo cast
In number of cards. You earn the witch doctor acheivement.

You can then wear your acheivement with pride or players that dislike witch doctors can shun you for it.

Each time a player earns this acheivement they earn a level.

So if you have witch doctored for 5 weeks, your acheivements say level 5 witch doctor, earned on day xxxx.

Now the witch doctor, is publically exposed, and has a higher risk for getting attacked by those that dislike witch doctors, or they can brag about it and try to sell their services.

+1 Finding a game strategy that most dislike is not always a bad thing, but every style will have its positives and negatives and its rejection or acceptance which then lines up social rewards or attacks. I have been attacked by others who were a wd but its no different in my mind than the "new" accounts who cast with only howkers or lmms to lose. I just take note and put them out of mind until I see them with more to lose then I will remind them of the casts they sent my way.
There are plenty of styles to play but ultimately I think it boils down to what you like, Avery has a grudge sells his ships and plays wd, during that time his income is less unless he finds a sponsor. Seems cut and dried to me, he adapted to a play style that offers less loss other than the 30 percent the shipwright takes, but it also pays less. As for the havoc it causes, that is the wd design the hard part is coming back from it and re establishing the trade or war fleets you want without being made to pay for past actions. I don't see the actual problem everyone else does I guess.
I used you as the example Avery because you are the only one claiming wd atm lol.

[Sir Thalius Hayle]

I know that I am still fairly new to the world of Avenmora and still working through all the ins and outs of the game dynamics, but I think Sir Henry Morgan and William One Eye have come up with a pretty fair solution to the Witch Doctor issue.

These suggestions do not hamper other play styles, and they allow players that want to play the Witch Doctor roll to do so in a legitimate way, and in a way that puts them at risk from other players who don't like Witch Doctors.

When/if such a roll is legitimized in the game, voodoo could be created that would target the Witch Doctor specifically and hamper his abilities to some degree. Not that the game needs much more voodoo, but a new roll in the game would open up the window for voodoo to target the player in that roll.

Just some thoughts...

[Vane]

Thieving magpie could take 5 cards, confuse could work at 95%. Time Spiral could take double the turns from them. Blacklist would lock WD's out of the "voodoo page" (meaning the market, buying, using etc. The page you land on when clicking the middle of the top banner).

Some quick wild thoughts but slighlty altering current cards could save introducing many more.

[Sir Thalius Hayle]

Thieving magpie could take 5 cards, confuse could work at 95%. Time Spiral could take double the turns from them. Blacklist would lock WD's out of the "voodoo page" (meaning the market, buying, using etc. The page you land on when clicking the middle of the top banner).

Some quick wild thoughts but slighlty altering current cards could save introducing many more.

You are suggesting such cards would be more effective against Witch Doctors? I like the thought.