Dev Team - Flagships

[DezNutz]

There is no issue with someone changing fro pirate to a nation flagged player. They lose the flagship but gain use of bank and other perks that non pirates get.

As long as it is known that flagship is lost is you change your flag there is no issue.

No reason to wait because the point is moot.

Change back to pirate you need to rebuild flagship from scratch. Not only that you should be penalized. Maybe have to wait 90 days to start a new flagship. Coding for this is actually quite simple.

It is an “if - then” subroutine

90 day period is also simple coding.

Then there is no reason to have an experience based leveling system. Why would anyone want to invest in a flagship where it goes away if you join a nation and have to wait 3 months to build a new one if you return to piracy. Why would anyone become a pirate for that or bother with Flagships.

You could just create a simple suggestion that designates a ship a flagship and it gains perks X, Y, Z. All because you fly the Jolly Roger. When you choose a flag, the perk goes away.

But, that's not interesting and doesn't do anything to generate more PvP battles.


Ok let's get really simple and basic.


This is where I think the Baseline Flagship should be:

Code: Select all

Who can own: Anyone

Ship Type: Flag Galleon, Frigate, War Galleon, or Large Frigate

Bonus Types: Attack, Defend, Fame (Not what is suggested), Danger, Plunder, Skirmish

Bonus Assignment is based on points using an Experience Based Leveling System.

Attack Bonus:
- Provides additional x% to attack role per Tier . (Similar to Bless)

Defend Bonus:
- Provides additional x% Armor Class per Tier (Similar to Drums of War)
- Creates and increases chance to escape a plunder by x% per Tier.

Danger Bonus:
- Provides +1 Danger Drop per Hour per Tier (Max Level of 5?)

Fame Bonus:
- Increase Fame from Plunder Win by x% per Tier
- Reduces Fame Loss  by x% from Plunder Loss per Tier

Plunder Bonus:
- Increases gold coin won during plunder by x% per Tier

Skirmish Bonus:
- Decreases the target's chance to escape skirmish by x% per Tier


In the event the ship is plundered (stolen), after 3 days (72 hours) the new rightful owner can choose to make the ship his/her flagship.  If accepted, all bonuses enacted on the ship carry over to the new owner and are activated.  The owner's previous flagship's bonuses are deactivated.  If not accepted, bonuses are remain deactivated and existing flagship stays as it was.

In the event a player possesses a disabled flagship, if their active flagship is plundered, they can reactivate a disabled flagship.



Very simple. All PvP based, no trader bonuses. No perks for playing styles. This naturally benefits pirates and privateers, those that engage in battles more frequently.

[DezNutz]

Simple question. If this is a good proposal then why are all comments so far negative. You can argue all you want that it is good but so far the player base is against it.

Please take that into consideration. Why force something that the people who play the game have negative reaction too.

The player base is the only measure you have.

So far no one likes or at least has commented positively on, the plantation tie in. No one outside of dev team has reacted positively to the fame tie in.

On the plus side the experience based leveling system seems to have a lot of support.

Build on the positive, rework the negative.

I am glad this is on the table.

My personal opinion aside there is a lot of good and just as much that needs to be scrapped or reworked.

IMO this suggestion will still be seen negatively no matter how it is suggested. Either it won't provide enough of a benefit to pirates, or the ability of a non-pirate to have one will be seen as giving another bonus to traders.

That's the argument. Pirates need a perk. What is really needed is PvP Battles and an interest to conduct them by everyone, not just pirates.

[Most Lee Harmless]

The proposal cant encourage or benefit small fleet pirates or privateers in engaging in more PVP as long as the benefits are linked to a fame mechanic which penalises exactly that. The more you fight the worse your fame becomes the less you can improve your flagship so whats the point of it?

The only folk who will be able to improve it under those terms are those who dont use it to fight but park it in port to support a plantation. They'll get plenty of fame to improve it and coin too. As long as it never fights.

So.. is that what we hoped for with the flagship? I think not.

Fame metric is broken and has been for far too long. It may make sense to link flagships to fame but only when fame gain/loss is not biased against the very players flagships are intended to boost.

[Hawk]

The loudest and most frequent posters are always the ones who disagree the most. I'm not sure enough people have commented to even be considered a fraction of the player base.

Regardless I am more interested in viability and good points brought up then noise produced. The following stands out the most.

1) Some players want this feature to really only benefit pirates.
2) A plantations bonus is disliked
3) The idea of fame being connected to any extent is disliked

The last two are details. Important, but easy to change or remove. The first however is part of the base idea for the proposal. In my personal opinion it is foolish to be upset with something because it potentially helps the other side. Seems like a lot of, "But look what he got!?!." If it does not negatively impact you, how is that bad?

The suggestion caters to pirates immensely. If you think traders get more out of it, you are probably a trader. Without a MoW and Sotl restriction, this suggestion would be gamebreaking in the pirates favor. You just don't see it due to the lack of pirates on the waters right now. Really between certain ship abilities and this, I fear peacetime might bring about features which leave traders with no recourse when pirates return with a vengeance.

If I could steer the conversation some. I would like to hear other's thoughts on if the suggestion would be better as a pirate-only one, to encourage players to fly the jolly roger and follow that play style. Personally I see making the pirate benefits stronger not an option. (Aside from plunder, skirmish, and fame bonuses which would be a good addition). But potentially the pro-trader benefits could be removed as yes, initially this was a pirate catering feature.

If you haven't commented but are reading please do so, it only helps if you post an on-topic opinion or suggestion.

[sXs]

Hawk, I have a way that flagships themselves can be pirate only, but the flagship game upgrade can be positive for more than just pirates. Increase in PvP action. Increase in nation engagement. Also it creates another game play style. Clean and simple to code and doesn’t involve all the extra items.

About 80% done with it but will send it to you tonight.

[Noffin]

The loudest and most frequent posters are always the ones who disagree the most.

No offense Sky but this comment is uncalled for. I for one am not the loudest nor a frequent poster and the point of this forum is to receive feedback on ideas whether they are negative or positive. Some of us are providing the feedback to help and it should not be looked down on.

[Most Lee Harmless]

Hawk : its not the link to fame : its the link to the current fame metric which penalises small fleet operators and actively prevents them accumulating any viable amount of fame unless they dont fight. There is the contradiction in the matter. Fix fame, stop penalising a whole section of the playerbase for not meeting some notional idea of sthe 'proper' ship count and then linking flagship improvements to fame stops being an issue. Whilst it is an issue I'll be loud about it cos silence is implicit acceptance and down the road when it all goes tits-up.. I hate hearing the words 'Well, why didnt you say anything before?'

[Dmanwuzhere]

The loudest and most frequent posters are always the ones who disagree the most. I'm not sure enough people have commented to even be considered a fraction of the player base.

Regardless I am more interested in viability and good points brought up then noise produced. The following stands out the most.

1) Some players want this feature to really only benefit pirates.
2) A plantations bonus is disliked
3) The idea of fame being connected to any extent is disliked

The last two are details. Important, but easy to change or remove. The first however is part of the base idea for the proposal. In my personal opinion it is foolish to be upset with something because it potentially helps the other side. Seems like a lot of, "But look what he got!?!." If it does not negatively impact you, how is that bad?

The suggestion caters to pirates immensely. If you think traders get more out of it, you are probably a trader. Without a MoW and Sotl restriction, this suggestion would be gamebreaking in the pirates favor. You just don't see it due to the lack of pirates on the waters right now. Really between certain ship abilities and this, I fear peacetime might bring about features which leave traders with no recourse when pirates return with a vengeance.

If I could steer the conversation some. I would like to hear other's thoughts on if the suggestion would be better as a pirate-only one, to encourage players to fly the jolly roger and follow that play style. Personally I see making the pirate benefits stronger not an option. (Aside from plunder, skirmish, and fame bonuses which would be a good addition). But potentially the pro-trader benefits could be removed as yes, initially this was a pirate catering feature.

If you haven't commented but are reading please do so, it only helps if you post an on-topic opinion or suggestion.

the ones that are counting posts are the ones who dont listen the most

as for it being the most generous offer ever to pirates and a boon to all pirate kind just shhhhhh on your opinion shaming and show me with math how good the pirates have it with this flag ship go ahead break out the numbers in the scenarios it affects ill wait....

[Mack]

Hawk : its not the link to fame : its the link to the current fame metric which penalises small fleet operators and actively prevents them accumulating any viable amount of fame unless they dont fight. There is the contradiction in the matter. Fix fame, stop penalising a whole section of the playerbase for not meeting some notional idea of sthe 'proper' ship count and then linking flagship improvements to fame stops being an issue. Whilst it is an issue I'll be loud about it cos silence is implicit acceptance and down the road when it all goes tits-up.. I hate hearing the words 'Well, why didnt you say anything before?'

[DezNutz]

The proposal cant encourage or benefit small fleet pirates or privateers in engaging in more PVP as long as the benefits are linked to a fame mechanic which penalises exactly that. The more you fight the worse your fame becomes the less you can improve your flagship so whats the point of it?

The only folk who will be able to improve it under those terms are those who dont use it to fight but park it in port to support a plantation. They'll get plenty of fame to improve it and coin too. As long as it never fights.

So.. is that what we hoped for with the flagship? I think not.

Fair point, but that can be changed. The way the abilities and bonuses were set is not something I completely agree with. What I do completely agree with is the Experience. It is by far the best part. It's a little light on details, but it's a legitimate setup.

I have concerns about choosing any ship for the Flagship. I'm more inclined to Frigates, Flag Galleons, and Large Frigates. Man-of-War is too much of a Trophy as it stands to be considered, plus you can't construct a new one. Ship of the Line is sorta acceptable, but I don't think that would be logical considering that the ship already is very powerful, there should be room for the bonus to make a difference.

I'm good with the 25 Credits cost to construct.

I differ on the captured/stolen Flagships.

There is a lot of good in this suggestion, but there are things that need to be worked on.

While I would like to see flagship provide a wide range of benefits, I am content on the base version being a more simple setup. Just need to get it where it needs to be.

@Everyone
Please understand that not everything is going to work out as we want. I may want something and it may just never come to fruition or a compromise has to be made. This is the same for everyone here. Compromises are going to occur.