Plantations Expansion

[Vane]

I say we spice things up and allowe pirates to own plantation and make them able to lower teir price so if merchant wants rum for 7 gc per crate he buys it from pirate but if he is caught ( for it I would say he is caught due some percentage) he gains hostile points twoards his nation and nation where he sells it and pay some ticket. But to balance it pirate whom sold that rum is caught and his produxtion is halted for some time.... that way it will be little more hectic game but big risks bring bigger profit

-1

Pirates plunder ships on water, they don't manage soil tilling...

There needs to be disadvantages to flying the black similar to not being able to access a bank.

[Jeanne de Clisson]

Way Too Complex to bother with

[Most Lee Harmless]

I'm having a tough time doing the math on this whole process : it seems very complicated : first, buy permit to construct, then buy permission to operate (re-buying every 3 months), import materials to build plantation, import workers to work, import food to feed them, some die, import more workers, rent acres, build houses for workers on some of your acres, rent more acres to grow stuff : then, hey presto, you grow stuff and sell it to market and hope it pays for all the foregoing expenses. With little idea of what the start-up costs will be, what the actual running costs will be, then how much you are actually going to be able to produce from however many acres you might be able to rent ....

I think the wise course will be to stand back and let others pay the price of failure here, especially as its already been stated it will be reviewed and probably 'modified' at a later date. Methinks the lesson of the Great Fishing Nerf should guide us in this.

[Sebena]

I say we spice things up and allowe pirates to own plantation and make them able to lower teir price so if merchant wants rum for 7 gc per crate he buys it from pirate but if he is caught ( for it I would say he is caught due some percentage) he gains hostile points twoards his nation and nation where he sells it and pay some ticket. But to balance it pirate whom sold that rum is caught and his produxtion is halted for some time.... that way it will be little more hectic game but big risks bring bigger profit

-1

Pirates plunder ships on water, they don't manage soil tilling...

There needs to be disadvantages to flying the black similar to not being able to access a bank.

I agree they plunder on the sea but they also cheat and decieve so them being able to earn something by deciveving nations and merchants(selling colored water as a rum) is good way. Of course paper which grants them possibility to own plantation should be forged( if it is found out entire production is stopped until they don't join nation and pay the fee or port doesn't change hands or change governor whom should be able to sell permit to pirate (forged aswell under alias) and risking that if he is found out he loses governing right on a week or some other time limit.) This way other options become available.

[DezNutz]

I think the wise course will be to stand back and let others pay the price of failure here, especially as its already been stated it will be reviewed and probably 'modified' at a later date. Methinks the lesson of the Great Fishing Nerf should guide us in this.

+1

[Most Lee Harmless]

I would propose the following to much simplfy plantations and allow some degree of forward planning :

In essence, the Plantation will follow the Hide-out model :

For a fee (100 credits), you may build a Plantation in ONE port :

This will give you 6 building plots : on one will be the Mansion

The basic level mansion will allow employment and housing of a start-up crew of workers. Further plots will allow the building of a BunkHouse : each new level increasing worker accommodation and thus workforce :
Barn : each level will increase storage, for the processing of your crops and to keep food for your workforce : barn not big enough, you cant have more workers.
Cantina : A place to feed and entertain your workers : again, higher levels will be needed for more workers to be catered for. happy well-fed and entertained workers are more productive.
Workshop : here skilled artisans create tools and processes to improve your fields and worker skills and thus productivity is increased.
Fields : These plots may be cultivated.

To increase your Plantation's capacity will require the upgrading of the Mansion to provide fresh plots to upgrade each building type : any unused plots may be turned over to cultivation but they can subsequently used to upgrade a building.

To gain more Fields, one can then rent acreage from the port owners : buildings can NOT be upgraded using such plots, they exist purely to be cultivated : if more workers or capacity is required, the Mansion will have to be upgraded to provide building plots.

So, the port owner gains from land rented out, and market forces will act on those prices. I suggest a tax is also imposed on the Plantations production : I dont see any need for permits beyond the initial building phase or recurring permission costs for the basic Plantation itself. This scheme allows th eplayer to 'scale back' and at least preserve some value from their investment should rentals or permissions become a tool of oppression.

This scheme would allow a basic Plantation to be built and used without becoming a hostage to port control issues, or inflated rentals or permission being used to drive folk out. But, should the player wish, by going into the rental market, they increase their risk of becoming embroiled in such matters, but with higher production and profits as the prize.

Importation of worker is fine.

the corrupt Governor lining their own pockets is fine too : but limit it to kickbacks from field rental deals : 'arrangement fees'..

[Captain Jack]

Danik, the numbers behind are really hard. You should add to this that in our case study, we are trying to simulate plantations. Which means that most of these numbers will be based off real numbers.

However, discussion at such is needed. A good example is the King cut that is not incorporated anywhere and truth is that while we have thought of this issue, I forgot to incorporate here.

I should add that we are working on this concept for some time now but the first concrete proposal, off which the case study is going to be created, is the suggestion I published here.

For King, as I see it now, in quick fashion, here are some thoughts:
-Kings also get to rule a port, the first port. This however means less governors. At any case, there will be only 21 governors on the map at every possible moment and not all of them will have (yet) such power. Only 9 will. So perhaps, giving them so much power is going to create fierce competition, even within nations, something that might now work well.

-The real obstacle is that the realism factor here, is that Governors should be independent. They should be able to trick their King as this is how it happened back then. They still will produce wealth "for the crown" but only a small part of it. It is their colony after all, they are the ones living in the colony - the King lives back home in his nice chambers and throne.

Of course this is Avonmora and there are no colonies but we still want to maintain this realism.

I think that the right solution to this part does not lie to demoting the Governor role but instead we need to upgrade the King role. The King should always be the most desirable title and now that Governors get a buff, we should not make this buff insignificant; instead, we need to add a better buff for the king.

With this final thought I will leave this to your feedback as we want to chew a bit more on this. There should be no rush. Like I said, this is the result of deep thought and research. Details need care.

[Captain Jack]

Every renewal will need the fee to be paid again to the nation. At the plantation law, the 15M seem low for a plantation owner and this is why governors are going to play a role here. Still, it is going to be a nice little income for the nations out of nowhere. 15M a day for 3 months, is 166k/day. If you also add the rental income plus the taxes generated by the resources sold by the port later, then the nation is only at a win win situation here.

After all, with plantations and Fertile Lands gone, these ports will never again get any production from the game. Therefore Plantations owner through their supply will attempt to control the port price.

Therefore the Warehouse Tycoon is going to take a small blow here. It will still be useful as it creating and improving a plantation will need time. Mostly due to the lack of workers.

Most probably, buildings will require tools,wood and iron as we always need to create demand for every resource so that the economy can work better and with more realist. However, the costs will not be that high so they are not a puzzle right now.

Contract Shipping will now be needed as a successful plantation owner might not be able to sell off all his crates. Or he might not want to do it; he might want to hand the logistics part and the risk contained to it to others.

We have not incorporated crop risks in the equations. This is something that will be considered in the revision.

Finally, there should be no fears for dead wood situations. Since the ports are going to need the production, there is now way this will not be successful. Acres renting may be linked with port stock, to control inflation. Such details though are better to skip from the public suggestion as it make an already complex feature poss a lot more complex.

The truth is that we like complex features and I am sure that the majority of the playerbase enjoys it. This is going to be, perhaps the most in-depth feature of the game. Not only it will link numerous of existing features together, but it will also create new chains, new strategies for things that were taken for granted. It will create a solid base for expansion not only for the existing features but also to numerous new features that you currently cannot even picture.

It is in fact a worthy PG V2.0 feature so it might happen this way eventually with Nation diplomacy expansion claiming the v1.9

Regarding Pirates, we need to have some realism here too. We generally avoid to enter this discussion, the definition of a pirate discussion. We are doing this deliberately as there can be no real definition. For example, if you google for the most notorious Pirates, you will find people with a pretty diverse background. Still, they are all named as pirates.

Some of such pirates, ended up as Governors. So a plantation eligibility is not an issue. The only real issue is what happens if now pirates conquer such a port? Well, production will continue till permissions expire. Once they expire, renewal will not be possible as Pirates have no law system.

[Most Lee Harmless]

Then I cant judge its value in any way : I have no idea of the costs, for most are wildly variable : I have no idea of how much may be produced to justify a variable level of rent, nor the running costs of that production, nor the cost of improving it. It may be fantastically profitable, or a gold-sink of purse-breaking horror. For it could be either. That's no basis to make any decision. So, I politely decline to take my interest any further.

[Shadowood]

Crop Risk should be a new voodoo card "Drought". Not sure of the whole effect but you see where I'm going with this. Or perhaps "Drought" is put in place in the already game mechanic "Natrual Disasters"

Have you considered:
Plantation + Contract Shipping + High Level Gold Smith = A player not needing to own a single ship and can make money. It's an interesting thought. I call it Vacation Mode.