Bounty System discussion

[Captain Jack]

There are surely more working options there.

But let's focus entirely in bounties:
-They are going to provide solutions to both big ends here which are Pirates at one side and established players at the other side.
-Pirate to Pirate wars will become more popular as there will be gold involved.
-Strategic assistance in a war, for those lacking a party will become possible.

With future additions such as:
-Early bounty call-off (for a fee) for bounty creator.
-Buyout fee (for a fee, perhaps x2 or x3) from the player targeted.
-Guild/Nation targets (not only players)

We can improve them. These additions are under discussion and we will decide them in cooperation with the players.

[Stan Rogers]

Captain Jack wrote-
" If you monitor this figure there, you will notice that it increases daily. This figure is of course relative to active players in the game. However, there it stands, 24B for the taking. These are funds just sitting there. Why create more? It will drop the value of the existing gold coins. We currently need more gold sinkers not more gold earners. Once the gold sinking is greater, we can explore more gold earning features."

I think a considerable amount of this gold is inaccessible to the average player being tied up in national treasuries, buried by inactive players and much of the rest is found in the bank accounts of the small hand full of long term players who made their piles of gold in easier times.

To me, it looks like the real world problem of the Occupy movement is also showing itself in Avonmora where 1% of the players hold 99% of the wealth.
I myself, has to make some personal choices as to how to move forward but essentially decided that further "development" will have to fund itself as I no longer can earn gc at the same rate as I once did.
At one time, if I did not like how a ship was developing, (Attribute strength/quantity), I would scrap it and re-invest in another. No longer can I afford to do this due to the 30% less return on ship sales back to the shipwright.

Yes, I might be able to sell on the open market but when these decisions are made, they are subject to immediate needs and lengthy wait times hoping for a sale is not an option for me. The result and my solution is, ship builds now are much less frequent.

Hideout investments- All hideout investments have been placed on hold pending hideout ability to fund itself for upgrades.
Well over 1 billion has been spent in personal funds that was speculated to increase wealth but failed miserably. So far, my gain is a safe place to store prized ships and very little income realized from this investment. There is only so long one can beat themselves over the head trying to earn a profit before it starts to become old.

Unfortunately for me, that time has come and I see no recourse but to halt any more development and try to go back to earlier gameplay styles and wait for further 'improvements' that will allow my recent investments to start paying for themselves and earning their keep without me having to supplement heavily their development which I am no longer able to do as I am not one who has billions tied up in treasure holes or bank accounts.

I know this post is only partially tied to the thread topic but a part of it regardless. I put down these thoughts to help admin understand the feelings that many in my position are experiencing currently but are hesitant to voice publicly. No amount of sales 'spin' or statistical demographic quotations will convince me what my own numbers are showing me in my personal situation. These shortcomings will be overlooked for a time while new developments are made in hopes of equalization will happen but each day and each development, that time grows shorter.

Be careful CJ as the thing you are trying to improve upon ( challenge for long term players) may become the thing that drives them away.

[Kart]

First, so my post is on point. I wear my bounty as a badge of honor. Someone actually thinks I am so dangerous they need to get others to hurt me. Ooooh, I must be really something. Not...I am just another player and am laughing that someone thinks of me as more than I am.

Now, to address and add to what Stan and others have said. I have held my tongue publicly since the first announcement of the new Captains check and my post not making it to the forum at that time. I will try again.

Danik and Stan are right. The changes in the game have taken strategies we have used for a good while and thrown them out the window. We build our games based upon the rules. We base our games to utilize the rules to our advantage. After we have spent a year or two working in this direction the developers decide "No we don't want people to play that way". Why not just make us start all over?

I have been called down about my ship count and told I should sell them. Excuse me, I once thought of my ships as an investment I could liquidate if I needed the gold. Reducing the ship market prices was like taxing me 30% of my savings.

I have been criticized for not hiring captains and having spent over X,XXX,XX,XXXX amount of gold coins that could have gone to captains. According to the previous rules, I set up my game so I could bypass the captains. I paid many of those X,XXX,XX,XXXX coins to new players to build ships for me. I paid as much as 1 million gold to new players to build level one Howkers. I spent 2 and 3 million gold to have people build me level 1 war ships. They weren't worth the gold but I was able to use a card and bypass the captains. All of this in accordance with the rules. You criticized me for spending my gold in the wrong manner and took away the ability for me to adjust fleets in any way until I spend Billions more on captains. Why not just make me start over.

Stan is right the smiths can't possibly pay for themselves no matter how long I play the game. The banks are a loosing proposition unless you manipulate the system the way I have as the risk of most loans is too high to make a profit.

All of these changes have directly affected those who have been most loyal to the game. It is as if you have said "we do not want success, we want everyone to stay at beginner levels."

You have really discouraged us with your changes.

[Most Lee Harmless]

Regarding this massive pile of gold in the game : heres a thought : it belongs to the players who havent sunk it into hide-outs and such like : the ones who just pile it up, bury it and do little more than that.
At no point in this game have I had a billion gc.. closer is the maximum I ever had, in coin, was about 250-300million : guess where that went? Yep, levelling up hideout buildings : Its all been funded from income, not some massive stash of coin buried somewhere. And, effectively, its all mostly lost to me now : well, that was the risk, I accept that: but the facts are, I can no longer make more gold to replace it. Thus, I hit this full stop. What do the devs really want us to do?

[Barnabas Sackett]

Feel the bern

[Sebena]

Both Stan and Kart are right all these new changes are ridiculous.
First tweek to fishing destroyed possibility for new players to earn little bit faster and grow that way.
Second ship market is boring if we have to wait to sell ships if we want more space and that leads to loweing value and instead of making profit we lose it. Reducing buyout from shipwright you discourage players from growing because they want gold to grow that's ok you will say they can take loan but that loan again needs gold coins to be paid back. They can sell gold bars and bang they are skirmished gold is lost again they lost coins to repay loan or invest them in new ships. Now bounty system is a huge failure new players are going to bite it and after they recive retaliation they'll leave rare ones are those who are ready to start fresh. Now I'll get thing it's a bs if you go with that you have no arguments each day we are growing that's true each day we get new players but how many stayed not so many. Possibility to ask castings in bounty are stupid if you annoy person enough they won't retaliate they'll sell ships and leave unless that is plan from admins to force established players to quit then I am sorry I didn't know I won't do that again

[Captain Jack]

Let's put all in an order here, before it spirals out of hand.

When you select to build a bank:

The bank allows you to undertake the role of a Banker. Though beware, bankers will need tremendous resources in time and financial assets to become successful.

Is this true? If you get a hint of the profits of the top banks, yes. There are only 4 banks in between level 15 and level 17.

When you select to build a goldsmith:

The goldsmith allows you to turn your gold coins into gold bars.Beware, as to be a profitable Goldsmith, it will require an enormous investment of wealth.

A lvl 20 Goldsmith can produce 9.600 gold bars daily at a total cost of about 15M, which means that with current prices it can easily score a clean 7.5M in profit (daily). There are only 3 level 20 Goldsmiths right now and the 4th at the rank is level 17.

On the captains issue:
When we introduced officers, we did it as a gold sinker again. Also, to add strategy in an area that demanded it as it was too chaotic. We allowed players to have big number of ships without the assisting captains because it was helping the game as players had to plunder for them. The largest that a player got was about 1250 ships I think. No player thought it prudent to go beyond this. Especially, once the limit to 25 fame was removed, all players decided to drop their numbers as it was impossible to defend.

We called no one to do anything, we simply always respond with solutions.

When we removed the ability to go round of it, we specifically mentioned that less than 10 players are affected. We allowed discussion on the issue and we allowed a lot of time (4 months I think?) to you to prepare. What would you want us do? Wait more or not change the game? How exactly ships market would work then? There would be no need for anyone to ever buy a captain again. Or should we not implement ships market?

Regarding fishing, when we implemented it, it was obviously TOO good. It was BETTER than trade routes. Do you think it was better this way? Do you think it is fair for fishing to pay more than trade routes? And if it too bad now, how come 590 fleets are currently out fishing? In comparison to about 2300 on trade routes? Do you realize that at one point there were more fleets fishing than trading? What was the most prudent action to take at that time? Whistle innocently and let the game become Fishing Glory?

Regarding strategies taken away... name me 3. I will name you 10 more that are now possible and I will continue naming 10 more for every missing one you all find.

Regarding shipwright price.. I understand you all dislike the 30% less price. However everyone has the same penalty.

Regarding wealth... things here are much better than in real life. The 1% of the players hold like 30% of the wealth (quick estimation in my mind, no stats checked)

The pile sitting... if you divide it with the daily active players, a very small amount will be due to each player. We are moving to an era where ALL players will have less at the side and many areas to spend. An era where you will have need for loans and where each gold spending decision will be more important than before. An era where you will not be able to buy it all like before hideout. Where people simply were sinking billions of gold coins to create monstrous warehouses. I believe this new Era is far better and it will prove far more entertaining.

[Psychodad]

Feel the bern

were pirates socialists?

[Yosarian]

CJ – I cannot quote figures to you, its truly an unfair fight as you have access to information I don’t – attempting to do so is bringing a knife to a gun fight

However, I can tell you of my experience as that is all I am sure of – this game is nowhere near as fun for me now as it was 6 month ago – moreover I have very limited avenues available for growth – I am a trader, I have ranked on and off in the top 10 for overall ships, I have played the game for about 15 month – yes, I am also in the top 10 for winning percentage but very rarely do I use any voodoo or take part in raids and except a small handful of times, those raids were on players who left the game – I would say that 95%+ of my revenue comes from trading

The recent updates have made it more difficult for me and limited my options further – I don’t want to go into banking because there is very little money in it and it does not appeal to me – I have heard from everyone that goldsmithing is not worth it so I will not invest there – the idea of academies intrigues me but the categories you talked about are not beneficial – having academies that give increases to ship attributes like cannons will be of minimal use, how many times do we see battle at the dreadnaught level – hardly ever – most battles are Frigate or smaller against unarmed merchant

So I continue to build merchant fleets even though the ROI on that fleet given captains and other officers is about 300 days – exceedingly non cost effective

The underlying message I am hearing from all these posts is that there needs to be an effective avenue of growth for existing merchants and since banks and smiths aren’t it, what are we left with besides watching our rather exposed merchant train be picked off daily

[Stan Rogers]

Let's put all in an order here, before it spirals out of hand.



The pile sitting... if you divide it with the daily active players, a very small amount will be due to each player. We are moving to an era where ALL players will have less at the side and many areas to spend. An era where you will have need for loans and where each gold spending decision will be more important than before. An era where you will not be able to buy it all like before hideout. Where people simply were sinking billions of gold coins to create monstrous warehouses. I believe this new Era is far better and it will prove far more entertaining.

People will go where they can earn the greatest GC for the smallest investment. As it stands, large warehouses and mega-fleets are still the only way to earn reasonable gold without having billions to invest. I do not profess to have any idea what a large banker can earn.
After playing 12-14 months, I was earning 5.5 mil/day and considered myself in the top 30% of active players.
In 15 days I will have played 2 years and now earn about 1 mil/day with little hope of reaching that pinnacle again for another 12 months through recent changes and then by only reverting back to the old system that worked for me before attempting new ventures.
As mentioned, I can only make decisions and comments based on my own personal experiences but in the end, those are the only ones that count for me.