Population Control proposed Fix

[Most Lee Harmless]

Some folk here have pushed an aspect of the game to its theoretical limit and broken the economic model of that aspect in the process : It seems naive to expect the developers to do nothing but sigh about it. I dont see why those folk should expect to be compensated for having deliberately broken the model : buying and using all those TI's was a gamble with very high rewards : as CJ points out, those rewards would have swamped the current gold coin in the game and it dont take a great imagination to see where that sudden over-supply of coin, held by just a small portion of the player-base, could lead. A cartel-like domination of the credit exchange market, is one instance : domination of the voodoo market : domination of the ship market : domination of ports : and all by a small handful of players. Such a massive accumulation of coin would unbalance the entire game so its again, naive, to expect nothing to be done about it.

Having removed myself from the insanity that is nation and port control matters, I dont have a horse to ride in this matter : but I can see the consequences of rewarding this 'breakage' or even minimal compensation for supposed 'losses' arising from any fix are garbage for the rest of the player-base : the gamble was taken, its paid off handsomely already : take your money and run.

As for any tears arising from the consequences of the 'fix' required to re-balance the game : leave it out, you shouldnt have broke it in the first place. As for the collateral losses of other players who didnt join your adventure but now pay the price of it : thats down to you, not the admins trying to salvage the wreckage you created.

[Poppy]

To be noted that T'zak Ryn members hold over 2,000 TI cards bought specificly to this end and will be affected by your changes. Thats an investment of over 20,000 credit that will turn to dust.

How exactly this investment will turn to dust?

As ports income will be half of what it is now there will be a diminishing interest in all port actions. i cant see TI's value stay abouve 3 cr each. talking about the deminishing aspect I think there are going to be deeper effects you have not yet considered to the game economy and fun factor you have not considered as port control and not only population is to be hurt and these two have been some of the biggest credit sinkers of the game. the have also been a major goals to many players and will have an effect on the reason decide to stay around.

I propose you will create a dialog with the poeple concerned in which a true conversation will be possible. regardless of the changes that will be put in effect i also suggest there will time period before they will be implemented so everyone can adjust and prepare and that the changes will be made gradually.

The dialog is already open.
We cannot allow more time to gel on this issue. More than enough has passed already. I see no reason to let this continue. If you do see, let us know of your reasons.
Please explain specifically what gradually means to you. This is not a general situation, this is a specific case that needs specific measurements.

Top down dialogue isnt a real one. It is just a way for you to check the water and disolve/soften some of the resistance to your dictation. as to the urgency of the situation you have pointed out that in 4 month time there will be a doubling of the gcs amount in the game. while that might be a concern (I am not convinced its that bad as there are other limiting factors) watching demographic page i noticed we didnt even made a new high. This problem as you already explained is known for a long time and its only now that Merc have succeeded where other have failed that you decided to act on it. I am not convinced its that urgent as you are saying it is.

respectfuly
PP

[Captain Jack]

So, Pulpop, your whole issue now is the 2,000 TI cards that MerC has? There are 466,000 TI cards in the game. What do you propose we should do about TI card holders? Perhaps we should also include BD holders?

Also, what do you suggest that we do with the TI/BD holders back in 2013:

Code: Select all

1.2.62 (2013-10-08 13:44:13)

*Transport Immigrants / Black Death Tweak
->Turn cost reduced to 6 turns (from 8)
->Effect reduced to 1% (from 5%)


After all, from what I get from your PMs and posts here, you got a really strong argument. You feel that their price will go to 3 credits.
I completely disagree with your feeling of course but perhaps I must listen to your feelings and not the game balance.

Regarding the credits sinker you are right. But you know, we care more for the game balance than the credits sinker.

[Poppy]

Some folk here have pushed an aspect of the game to its theoretical limit and broken the economic model of that aspect in the process : It seems naive to expect the developers to do nothing but sigh about it. I dont see why those folk should expect to be compensated for having deliberately broken the model : buying and using all those TI's was a gamble with very high rewards : as CJ points out, those rewards would have swamped the current gold coin in the game and it dont take a great imagination to see where that sudden over-supply of coin, held by just a small portion of the player-base, could lead. A cartel-like domination of the credit exchange market, is one instance : domination of the voodoo market : domination of the ship market : domination of ports : and all by a small handful of players. Such a massive accumulation of coin would unbalance the entire game so its again, naive, to expect nothing to be done about it.

Having removed myself from the insanity that is nation and port control matters, I dont have a horse to ride in this matter : but I can see the consequences of rewarding this 'breakage' or even minimal compensation for supposed 'losses' arising from any fix are garbage for the rest of the player-base : the gamble was taken, its paid off handsomely already : take your money and run.

As for any tears arising from the consequences of the 'fix' required to re-balance the game : leave it out, you shouldnt have broke it in the first place. As for the collateral losses of other players who didnt join your adventure but now pay the price of it : thats down to you, not the admins trying to salvage the wreckage you created.

Respectfuly Danik, we have not created this but dev did. We have accepted a challange that was build into this game. a challange many have tried to take but failed. We have took into account that changes will be made. But do you truely believe these rush/reactive changes will be better then the ones that are the base of the current situation?

I do believe that smart, strategic and cooperative game playing should be encouraged and certainly not discourage. and I do believe admin and devs have a dificult task ahead of them. hopefully if carefuly planned and implemented they will be able to improve the game instead of limiting it. There are many more inefficiencies built into the game. some are less obvious and some where not exploited until now but these one isnt so special or urgent.

always enjoy reading your views even when we disagree
PP

[Poppy]

So, Pulpop, your whole issue now is the 2,000 TI cards that MerC has? There are 466,000 TI cards in the game. What do you propose we should do about TI card holders? Perhaps we should also include BD holders?

After all, from what I get from your PMs and posts here, you got a really strong argument. You feel that their price will go to 3 credits.
I completely disagree with your feeling of course but perhaps I must listen to your feelings and not the game balance.

Regarding the credits sinker you are right. But you know, we care more for the game balance than the credits sinker.

I dont have all the answers CJ. I raised that issue only to show that some will get hurt. and part of my investment is BD cards which i bought to ensure the success of this population project. I just didnt bother mentioning them,

I will take the action needed to keep my guild mate spirit high and will take the heavy losses this will create for them as much as I possibly can.

I do suggest admin/devs take time and figure how to balance the game economy better and without drasticly limiting gameplay or creating negative incentives for positive gameplay.

[sXs]

CJ will NPC tax be set to 50 by developers or will we need a vote?

[Captain Jack]

CJ will NPC tax be set to 50 by developers or will we need a vote?

We will set it. It is a law for a reason though, because at some point it will be up to the nations to decide and this will have some affects to the population growth, among other things.

[sXs]

Like I said earlier, if it ties into some other upcoming game upgrades then I am fine with it.

Thank you for clarification.

[Most Lee Harmless]

Respectfuly Danik, we have not created this but dev did. We have accepted a challange that was build into this game. a challange many have tried to take but failed. We have took into account that changes will be made. But do you truely believe these rush/reactive changes will be better then the ones that are the base of the current situation?

I do believe that smart, strategic and cooperative game playing should be encouraged and certainly not discourage. and I do believe admin and devs have a dificult task ahead of them. hopefully if carefuly planned and implemented they will be able to improve the game instead of limiting it. There are many more inefficiencies built into the game. some are less obvious and some where not exploited until now but these one isnt so special or urgent.

always enjoy reading your views even when we disagree
PP

That an 'inefficiency' exists and you combine with others to push it to its extreme doesnt excuse the outcome : Lots of 'bugs' and 'glitches' and 'inefficiencies' exist and remain because no-one has yet pushed them to their conclusion : this cant mean they were intended to have the current outcome, nor that efforts should not be made to modify that outcome. You say you expected changes to be made as a result: so why the complaints when, lo and behold, changes are forthcoming? Well, not the changes you expected then, but why should you be compensated for guessing wrong? TI prices will fall? Yep, but why are they currently so high? Somebody buying them all up, perhaps? So that is, to a degree, a self-created issue, is it not?

I have enjoyed watching MERC play out this scenario for many months now : let's not play the innocents here : yep, your guild has a stockpile of BD's too as part of the 'leverage' to implement this guild scheme. I cant speak as to whether your current nation partners are willing or unwilling participants : I know one nation turned down the 'offer' and paid the price of doing so. Well, its a robust old game and full of tricks and chicanery : fair dos to you for pulling it off : but it WAS a stroke, it was a scheme, it did play fast and loose with the spirit of the rules (re: exploitation of 'inefficiencies', perhaps) : and now its over : take the money and run, but dont look for sympathy. Tears and kudos dont mix well at all.

[Poppy]

Respectfuly Danik, we have not created this but dev did. We have accepted a challange that was build into this game. a challange many have tried to take but failed. We have took into account that changes will be made. But do you truely believe these rush/reactive changes will be better then the ones that are the base of the current situation?

I do believe that smart, strategic and cooperative game playing should be encouraged and certainly not discourage. and I do believe admin and devs have a dificult task ahead of them. hopefully if carefuly planned and implemented they will be able to improve the game instead of limiting it. There are many more inefficiencies built into the game. some are less obvious and some where not exploited until now but these one isnt so special or urgent.

always enjoy reading your views even when we disagree
PP

I have enjoyed watching MERC play out this scenario for many months now : let's not play the innocents here : yep, your guild has a stockpile of BD's too as part of the 'leverage' to implement this guild scheme. I cant speak as to whether your current nation partners are willing or unwilling participants : I know one nation turned down the 'offer' and paid the price of doing so. Well, its a robust old game and full of tricks and chicanery : fair dos to you for pulling it off : but it WAS a stroke, it was a scheme, it did play fast and loose with the spirit of the rules (re: exploitation of 'inefficiencies', perhaps) : and now its over : take the money and run, but dont look for sympathy. Tears and kudos dont mix well at all.

thats totally untrue Denik. We didnt threat nor did we use a single BD throughout this operation. you dont know me that well but you can ask SHM how it was conducted and how transparant we where with him and to a lesser extent to anyone we approached. on the contrary, despite having UK and Montenegro free riding our efforts we have supported them and even casted a random TI here and there.

Talking about Montenegro remember they had a full on port control war and did withstand a BD attack as part of it. their costs where huge (as well as UK costs to a lesser extent as the port control fight was mutual for at least one day).