(Legendary) Forces Of Chaos

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Re: (Legendary) Forces Of Chaos

Postby DezNutz » Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:53 pm

Guluere wrote:
DezNutz wrote:
Nicholi wrote:How about twice as powerful? Is that a good compromise?


Even doubling the effect would make certain voodoo outrageously powerful.


What are those?


Well lets just start at the top. And I'll provide some additional details.

Advanced Piracy : Doubled would be 4% with 5 stacks for 72 hrs. OR 2% with 5 stacks for 144 hrs.
Ambush : Doubled would be 36 Danger.
Antagonize: Doubled would be player selling back to port at base price -4
Assassin: Double Losses 2 Officers
Booty Master: Double would be stealing 6-14% from target player
Bribe: Double 2 random offices join
Call Leviathan: Double would lose 2 ship levels
Call the Kraken: Double would be 4% damage per turn invested with an additional random 20-30% damage dealt.
Confuse: Double would be 60% chance of fail with Avenge 2.
Control the skies: Doubled would be 20% deduction in ship speed with 5 stacks

Do I need to provide more examples of why even doubled is just stupid.
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Re: (Legendary) Forces Of Chaos

Postby Meliva » Sat Aug 20, 2016 12:10 am

and taxation would make upkeep 8 times more expensive. but with the avenge 2 it would be 16 times more expensive. that would be very damaging to a large merchant. and if we went with the original suggestion it would be 32 times normal upkeep. this voodoo is simply to powerful. and Guluere. instead of saying it would be expensive to make, perhaps you should have taken the time to actually list, what it would cost? doesn't make sense to make a suggestion that isn't even fully thought out.
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Re: (Legendary) Forces Of Chaos

Postby Haron » Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:28 am

I actually DON'T think this is too powerful. It goes for one card only. So, you spend one expensive legendary card to increase the effect of one other card. You pay a lot for the effect of two (or four) other cards. It should not affect other legendary cards, though.

Also, I think it's possible to present a suggestion and discuss the price later - if the idea catches on.

My main objection to this card, is that you'll need to specify how the effect is increased for each separate card. So, you'll need to make a long list with effects. But if that is done, I think a card like this could be a good idea.
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Re: (Legendary) Forces Of Chaos

Postby Grimrock Litless » Sat Aug 20, 2016 12:50 pm

Haron wrote:I actually DON'T think this is too powerful. It goes for one card only. So, you spend one expensive legendary card to increase the effect of one other card. You pay a lot for the effect of two (or four) other cards. It should not affect other legendary cards, though.

Also, I think it's possible to present a suggestion and discuss the price later - if the idea catches on.

My main objection to this card, is that you'll need to specify how the effect is increased for each separate card. So, you'll need to make a long list with effects. But if that is done, I think a card like this could be a good idea.


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Re: (Legendary) Forces Of Chaos

Postby DezNutz » Sat Aug 20, 2016 1:05 pm

Haron wrote:I actually DON'T think this is too powerful. It goes for one card only. So, you spend one expensive legendary card to increase the effect of one other card. You pay a lot for the effect of two (or four) other cards. It should not affect other legendary cards, though.


I would agree if it was a small percentage increase, except in this case the effect would be doubled or quadrupled (if the first post hasn't been changed). Doubling the effects of certain cards even once is too powerful.
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Re: (Legendary) Forces Of Chaos

Postby Grimrock Litless » Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:22 am

DezNutz wrote:
Haron wrote:I actually DON'T think this is too powerful. It goes for one card only. So, you spend one expensive legendary card to increase the effect of one other card. You pay a lot for the effect of two (or four) other cards. It should not affect other legendary cards, though.


I would agree if it was a small percentage increase, except in this case the effect would be doubled or quadrupled (if the first post hasn't been changed). Doubling the effects of certain cards even once is too powerful.


It only works for the next cast, and no more.
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Re: (Legendary) Forces Of Chaos

Postby Knight Orlong » Sun Aug 21, 2016 4:21 am

Give me the card for free (maybe two or three, just in case). I'll test it and after conducting numerous experiments, I'll give a conclusive report.
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Re: (Legendary) Forces Of Chaos

Postby ChaIbaud » Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:05 am

-Guluere cries about casting 3 FoJ before the hour- -suggests voodoo that can make 1 do more damage than the 3- -doesn't think "hey, we have an avenge ability for a reason"-
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Re: (Legendary) Forces Of Chaos

Postby Grimrock Litless » Mon Aug 22, 2016 1:47 pm

chal wrote:-Guluere cries about casting 3 FoJ before the hour- -suggests voodoo that can make 1 do more damage than the 3- -doesn't think "hey, we have an avenge ability for a reason"-


It works for only one cast, they are still clearable and is extremly expensive, whats with all the butt hurt?
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Re: (Legendary) Forces Of Chaos

Postby Haron » Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:12 pm

DezNutz wrote:
Well lets just start at the top. And I'll provide some additional details.

1) Advanced Piracy : Doubled would be 4% with 5 stacks for 72 hrs. OR 2% with 5 stacks for 144 hrs.
2) Ambush : Doubled would be 36 Danger.
3) Antagonize: Doubled would be player selling back to port at base price -4
4) Assassin: Double Losses 2 Officers
5) Booty Master: Double would be stealing 6-14% from target player
6) Bribe: Double 2 random offices join
7) Call Leviathan: Double would lose 2 ship levels
8) Call the Kraken: Double would be 4% damage per turn invested with an additional random 20-30% damage dealt.
9) Confuse: Double would be 60% chance of fail with Avenge 2.
10) Control the skies: Doubled would be 20% deduction in ship speed with 5 stacks

Do I need to provide more examples of why even doubled is just stupid.


I don't think ANY of these examples are too powerful. I've numbered them for ease of reference.

1) So you get 4% instead of 2% extra for one card. If you want to stack 5, you'd need to spend 5 legendary cards. I don't think I would waste my card on this - the effect would be too SMALL.
2) So, basically I get an extra ambush? Makes this card slightly better than ambush, since I can increase the total, but hardly very powerful. I don't think I'd waste my legendary card on this, either.
3) This COULD be nice - against a sleeping target with no guild. Might make a trade route LOSE money. Easy to counter, though. Just store goods instead of selling directly. I'd have to have a good plan and done lots of scouting to be willing to spend my card on this. I doubt it would ever be worth it.
4) So, the card is then equally effective as an assassin card? Which is worth 3 credits? Nope, not wasting it on this.
5) Again: Remember that the card only affects ONE other voodoo. Which in this case means it's worth about one booty master. Trade one legendary card for the value of a rare card? I think not.
6) Same here. Just spend another bribe card. The legendary card should be more valuable than ANY rare card, so I won't waste it on this either.
7) Same here. Yes, the ship loses two levels. So my card is worth the same as a call leviathan card. Not worth it - better to spend one more leviathan.
8) Well, depending on the turn cost, this makes the card worth about 20 turns. Again, definitely not worth it.
9) Confuse would be a possible use for this card. If locked with a mindbar, this could be irritating. Still, just get help from your guildmates to remove it. That's what I would do if I wanted to use voodoo and had confuse on me, anyway.
10) Still needs 1 card for each card you want to improve. In theory, you COULD waste 5 of this card to stop the targets fleet completely (speed -20% x5) That would be awfully expensive, though. Are there any situations where it would be worth it? Maybe, though I don't really see it. But then again, the card should have SOME use.

Meliva mentioned taxation. Again, I hardly think it would be worth it. It COULD be, though, if you plan on stealing ships right after server midnight. But overpowered? No.

So: Not really overpowered at all.

That does not mean the card is necessarily a good idea. The problem is that one would need to specify for each voodoo card what doubling the effect would mean. In some cases it may be obvious, but not in others. How would you double a mindbar, for instance? What about serenity? Oh, and what about the "party cards" - do you double the price you get? There are lots of cards like this. Which means the card would need an awfully long description. THAT is my objection to this card. It's not really overpowered - at least not for the examples DezNuts provided. It's just too complex, as the effect varies wildly depending on which card it's used on.
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