TRUMP 2020!

[Lachlan]

hey Meliva you didn't answer my previous question, I would like to know if most of my points are right or not, it's on page 185

Meliva haven't drone strikes always killed a few innocent people each time? And didn't Obama start to withdraw and reduce numbers of troops in the middle East? Also in Obama's first term didn't he have to deal with all the Middle East wars the previous President started so wouldn't it take him time to scale down US involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan and leave behind a semi stable country instead of just yeeting your troops out of their and leaving those countries to collapse and be overrun by terrorists again? Also I'm pretty sure you still have a few troops there training the Iraqi and Afghan army and stuff. Finally Obama came into power just after the GFC so he had a weaker economy to work with?

For your first, that depends on what you do or do not shoot. Firing drone strikes at restaurants like he did which killed an American citizen, are very much more likely to kill innocent people then a drone strike on a single vehicle with an Iran general in it.

Obama didn't do crap scaling down our presence in the middle east. He made things worse. The exact OPPOSITE of what he promised to do. Yes, it takes time to pull out, and more time to pull out and not leave a mess, but he didn't even start, he just made things worse.

Yes, we do have some troops over there still-training other troops. Trump at least started taking folks home, and is trying to make them self sustaining without us and put peace agreements in place. Also, yes he came into a weak economy, doesn't change the fact Trump did a better job in 4 years for our economy then him in 8. Well until covid mucked things up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lv1aiBLdfNI

This video does a pretty good job talking about some of the big problems of Obama's presidency and other points.

ok I get that I guess but I'm pretty sure the plan was to have the same amount of troops until 2014 and then the International Coalition forces would start withdrawing from there slowly reducing number. Also did the restaurant have a terrorist target in there or something? I just kinda feel like most of you are Republican supporters though and if Obama was so bad I'm not sure why he got reelected. I guess it just seems like you and everyone else is more Trump/ Republican leaning and Blue is more Democrat party leaning.

[Meliva]

The hell does it matter if there was or was not a target there or not?
Lemme ask you something- do you really think just because a terrorist target is in a restaurant, that makes it justified to send a drone strike at said restaurant? Where innocent people, from the folks who work there, as well as other customers are? Would be better to try to hit the guy when he drives off in a car alone, or at another spot where folks are not gonna get in the crossfire. Hell, again, one of our OWN citizens DIED because of it!

He got re-elected because the media didn't hound on him as bad as they did on Trump. Plus, if you watched the video i showed, or looked it up, you would see he literally got 4 Million less votes in his 2nd run for office then his first. That is a pretty big dip in numbers, and had the media hounded on him for a lot of his crap, he might not have got re-elected.

Edit- it also helped that while he was a pretty crap president, he was a very charismatic speaker, and did a pretty damn good job of telling folks what they wanted to hear.

Edit 2-also children sometimes died because of those drone strikes. Do you really think, that it's justified if for example, to blow up a McDonalds playplace that has some kids in it, if a terrorist was also in there at the time?

[Lachlan]

The hell does it matter if there was or was not a target there or not?
Lemme ask you something- do you really think just because a terrorist target is in a restaurant, that makes it justified to send a drone strike at said restaurant? Where innocent people, from the folks who work there, as well as other customers are? Would be better to try to hit the guy when he drives off in a car alone, or at another spot where folks are not gonna get in the crossfire. Hell, again, one of our OWN citizens DIED because of it!

He got re-elected because the media didn't hound on him as bad as they did on Trump. Plus, if you watched the video i showed, or looked it up, you would see he literally got 4 Million less votes in his 2nd run for office then his first. That is a pretty big dip in numbers, and had the media hounded on him for a lot of his crap, he might not have got re-elected.

Edit- it also helped that while he was a pretty crap president, he was a very charismatic speaker, and did a pretty damn good job of telling folks what they wanted to hear.

Edit 2-also children sometimes died because of those drone strikes. Do you really think, that it's justified if for example, to blow up a McDonalds playplace that has some kids in it, if a terrorist was also in there at the time?

I know but there must be some reasoning to why he did that wouldn't there? I dunno

[Leo]

Oh, what a surprise, you ignore all the points that matter again. Much easier to ignore the fact of all the things Obama-Biden did during their eight years isn't it?

And again- a slip of the tongue is one thing, forgetting who you are running against or what office you are going for is another.

I think what Obama and Joe Biden did that you are referring to IS important. I think those things did not have ideal outcomes. And by all means they were not all that great. Obama was a pretty mediocre president for what it's worth.

He also explicitly refused to fix the situation at the border where kids are being separated from their parents, and also refused to fix that 5 year old children are forced to defend themselves in immigration court.

Blue, four quick questions and please please please answer them logically with yes or no answers.
1. What happens to American Kids when their parents go to jail or prison for breaking the law, do the kids go with them?
- If no, your separating kids from their parents, if yes your just mean to subject kids to that.

2. Should the children of parents in prison be in prison with their parents?
- If no, your separating kids from their parents, if yes your just mean to subject kids to that.

3. Are people who cross our boarders illegally breaking the law?
- If yes, then they are subject to American Laws just as Americans are, if no, then you need to learn the law

4. Should illegal aliens get treatment that is better than American Citizens?
- If no, then you have to seperate the kids from the adults in Jail for breaking the law, if yes then I really hope you wake up one day

I would hope you wouldn't want to see kids in general population, and the law is clear about juveniles in adult facilities. Im not sure why you think Trump doing what Obama and the law say to do is worse because just because its Trump.

1. Ideally the parents shouldn't be going to jail at all for reasons that I have explained several times. Instead, I think they should be offered a chance at citizenship. That way no one goes to jail and no kids are left to be babysat by ICE officers.

2. No, I don't think that kids should go to prison, but I don't think their parents should either. By illegally crossing the border, you are not putting anyone in danger unless you are previously a criminal.

3. Yes, they are breaking the law, but I don't believe it needs serious consequences. Chances are that that if they came here illegally, they were escaping danger. I don't think that making a decision to save yourself and/or your family should be met with prison time. I am all for them becoming legal citizens of course.

4. Illegal immigrants should be treated EQUAL to US citizens. They are still human, after all, and where they come from should be irrelevant.

[Dmanwuzhere]

yeah well a bunch of politicians who have gotten it around the world so some aren't there for the money and are personally affected by it

pretty basic talking point
now name the politicians who arent doing it for money
the great thing about trump is he was doing it for the fame and hes pretty patriotic
take biden a public servant all his life turned multi millionaire by selling out his country and made policies that hurt americans
trump has lost money while in office and will lose a tad more but is still a billionaire
he likes putting his name on everything and he left it in a spot it can never be erased (us history) his personal mission was accomplished
and his policies were by and large for the people and they benefitted minorities poor folks and rich alike
he introduced 1 policy i hate and several i dislike but when measured by totality he did an awesome job imagine what
he could have accomplished if the left would have embraced him he did so much with creativity in going around the opposition
the left made sure to set the future standard to make it a partisan brawl and non acceptance if the pres isnt in your party

well I don't know many politician but local politicians and also younger politicians tend to care more about their community than politics but the older politicians are in power and hold all the power so the younger low level politicians can do nothing. Maybe Boris Johnson because he got the CoronaVirus and had to recover for quite a bit. I dunno many politicians

you have some weird thought processes
according to you if a politician has gotten the rona they care more for their country
which contradicts your views on trump who has had the rona
unless catching the rona makes you sick and morally a better person as a side effect
the view is quite silly and contradicts any argument you have had on trump thus far

as for younger or older i prefer an older politician simply because in the current climate its all about your feelings
and young folks have tons of feelings
as you mature you realize feelings have less impact on reality than you as a youngster thinks they should

take what you just said to meliva
you feel there had to be a reason so obama was justified
your feeling that there must be a reason has little effect on the fact needless innocents were killed
it doesnt change we have the tech and the intelligence gathering capabilities to literally choose the when where and payload of explosives
to strike someone pissing at 3 am in their current bathroom and leave the house intact
then their is snipers and abduction teams etc available from the different branches of our military

but strike all that because your feelings do not allow for mistakes to happen with those you choose to support
and in the same thought process your feelings condemn those you dont support
facts over feelings will always win an argument and not make you look like a see saw

[Dmanwuzhere]

I think what Obama and Joe Biden did that you are referring to IS important. I think those things did not have ideal outcomes. And by all means they were not all that great. Obama was a pretty mediocre president for what it's worth.

He also explicitly refused to fix the situation at the border where kids are being separated from their parents, and also refused to fix that 5 year old children are forced to defend themselves in immigration court.

Blue, four quick questions and please please please answer them logically with yes or no answers.
1. What happens to American Kids when their parents go to jail or prison for breaking the law, do the kids go with them?
- If no, your separating kids from their parents, if yes your just mean to subject kids to that.

2. Should the children of parents in prison be in prison with their parents?
- If no, your separating kids from their parents, if yes your just mean to subject kids to that.

3. Are people who cross our boarders illegally breaking the law?
- If yes, then they are subject to American Laws just as Americans are, if no, then you need to learn the law

4. Should illegal aliens get treatment that is better than American Citizens?
- If no, then you have to seperate the kids from the adults in Jail for breaking the law, if yes then I really hope you wake up one day

I would hope you wouldn't want to see kids in general population, and the law is clear about juveniles in adult facilities. Im not sure why you think Trump doing what Obama and the law say to do is worse because just because its Trump.

1. Ideally the parents shouldn't be going to jail at all for reasons that I have explained several times. Instead, I think they should be offered a chance at citizenship. That way no one goes to jail and no kids are left to be babysat by ICE officers.

2. No, I don't think that kids should go to prison, but I don't think their parents should either. By illegally crossing the border, you are not putting anyone in danger unless you are previously a criminal.

3. Yes, they are breaking the law, but I don't believe it needs serious consequences. Chances are that that if they came here illegally, they were escaping danger. I don't think that making a decision to save yourself and/or your family should be met with prison time. I am all for them becoming legal citizens of course.

4. Illegal immigrants should be treated EQUAL to US citizens. They are still human, after all, and where they come from should be irrelevant.

they are treated equally break the law and you have consequences
escaping danger led by the words "chances are" means you dont know but your feelings trump actual facts
also breaking the law is not subject to reasons that are subjective
if you steal a couple items from my garden and say you were hungry and i catch you i as a citizen will not see you arrested
however if i am not home and the police catch you knowing you dont live there well you broke the law and did so willingly so deal with it
you break into my home stealing electronics and valuables i would shoot you and i dont care if you say you were hungry
or i might make you eat an ipad since you are so hungry and you were not stealing my food
why you do things may appeal to the person you wrong but in the eyes of the law its wrong and i was hungry is not excusable

try sneaking into some other countries mexico included and see how that goes
you do not have the right to enter another country without permission
and im faaaaaar right on that subject and to the point i would ok shooting violaters
bet that massive inflow would slow to a trickle then
national security is not a joke

there are many countries we allow in mexico is not the only troubled country
but the guatemalans who sneak into mexico are not welcomed
they are bribed and deported or beaten and deported
and sometimes they are found dead from the beatings/rapes

[The Lamb]

Blue, four quick questions and please please please answer them logically with yes or no answers.
1. What happens to American Kids when their parents go to jail or prison for breaking the law, do the kids go with them?
- If no, your separating kids from their parents, if yes your just mean to subject kids to that.

2. Should the children of parents in prison be in prison with their parents?
- If no, your separating kids from their parents, if yes your just mean to subject kids to that.

3. Are people who cross our boarders illegally breaking the law?
- If yes, then they are subject to American Laws just as Americans are, if no, then you need to learn the law

4. Should illegal aliens get treatment that is better than American Citizens?
- If no, then you have to seperate the kids from the adults in Jail for breaking the law, if yes then I really hope you wake up one day

I would hope you wouldn't want to see kids in general population, and the law is clear about juveniles in adult facilities. Im not sure why you think Trump doing what Obama and the law say to do is worse because just because its Trump.

1. Ideally the parents shouldn't be going to jail at all for reasons that I have explained several times. Instead, I think they should be offered a chance at citizenship. That way no one goes to jail and no kids are left to be babysat by ICE officers. You didnt answer the question, i asked about American citizens

2. No, I don't think that kids should go to prison, but I don't think their parents should either. By illegally crossing the border, you are not putting anyone in danger unless you are previously a criminal.You didnt answer the question, i asked about American citizens

3. Yes, they are breaking the law, but I don't believe it needs serious consequences. Chances are that that if they came here illegally, they were escaping danger. I don't think that making a decision to save yourself and/or your family should be met with prison time. I am all for them becoming legal citizens of course.Either its against the law or not, what you "think" isnt relevant. You still havent answered the question

4. Illegal immigrants should be treated EQUAL to US citizens. They are still human, after all, and where they come from should be irrelevant.I agree that they should be treated with respect, but not have all the rights a citizen has until they become one. But, if a citizen goes to jail for breaking the law, they dont take their kids with them, right?

I noticed you also didnt say yes or no, you felt you had to justify your position. Can you answer what i said with a yes or no?

[Leo]

1. No

2. No

3. Yes

4. No

But I don't think these can be answered as simply as yes and no. I really don't think that unless an illegal immigrant previously committed a crime like murder, rape etc that it is necessary fro them to go to jail.

EDIT:

On a different note, I am not particularly thrilled with the Democratic Party's decision to re-nominate Pelosi as speaker of the house. Oh well.

[Mack]

illegal they should be at least deported, in order to do that you will need places for them to be held till deportation. i personally dont feel like we owe them a hotel room or anything, they did knowingly break the law

[The Lamb]

Thanks Blue for answering honestly, i appreciate that!!!! But laws ARE yes or no questions, at first atleast.

So here is where the problem lies, you cann't just allow people to break the law because they have a good story. The story is for when in front of the judge after breaking the law and the judge will say if the story has merit.

Could you imagine "Speed limit 65, unless you just lost your job, or dont like where you live, or, or, or." First of those signs would be huge . Second, peoples feelings cant determine if laws should be followed. How many people would follow the law and drive 65 mph vrs. how many would lie to get out of a ticket when caught speeding?

Laws are there to be followed, if you dont like the law, then the govt can change it, but we still have to follow the law until they do. And the fact that these laws have been there so long through dems and reps should tell you that maybe you dont have all the information.