TRUMP 2020!

[Dmanwuzhere]

its also why biden, bernie and all the other socialists are idiots

Biden isn't socialist.

As much as you or I would love to think that, Biden is one of the most moderate democrats alive.

https://apps.npr.org/documents/document ... MENDATIONS


lol if biden was capable of running without the voters of bernie and others he may have stayed moderate however the "manifesto" is not the work of a moderate just shows biden is a parrot and willing to do anything for the spot and that means going against his "normal" politics
everyone knows he sucks as a politician and there is over 40 years of prior suckiness to prove it

[Meliva]

yeah I know about other leaders not doing anything but then if that is the case then that shows a weak spot in your system that they cannot be legally obliged to follow the experts. I agree that WHO did not do a very good job but just because they have failed once doesn't mean you should withdraw from it and blame it all on them. Also you guys have gone around and started a few wars by yourselves that were not completely justified and then withdrew from having not completing your goals and then destabilizing the country further making it worse like Vietnam and Afghanistan and maybe Iraq but I don't know as much about that so I'll leave that as a maybe. Another thing is you need to be involved in international affairs to stop things from happening. Isolating yourselves like in WW1 and WW2 didn't work and in my view was kinda pointless. Instead you guys should focus your more of your vast resources into science, Medicine, NASA etc instead of focusing on your defence force and learrn to manage your resources better because you guys are kinda inefficient when it comes to money than say us Aussies because the general trend is that smaller countries can make something just as good with less resources and money than you guys

also I agreed with the ban from the very start, knew that was the right thing and the smartest thing to do

Far as I know no country has it set up that political leaders are LEGGALLY obliged to follow the opinions or directions of experts of ANY field. They can certainly listen to them and take it into consideration, but be legally obliged to do what they say? No, that's stupid, why bother electing political leaders then if experts of a field can just tell them what to do? They aren't even leaders at that point.

WHO can get their money from other nations. If we decide we can not trust them, and no longer want to fund them that is our right as a nation to stop supporting them. You and other nations might not like it, but too bad. It's our money, not yours's. Maybe if WHO improves and proves it can be trusted again, we might fund it again. Until then, I don't support giving money to an organization that failed us so badly.

In all 3 of your examples, crap was already hitting the fan in all those areas. Did we make it worse? Debatable. But it wasn't pleasant in the first place. We also helped out alot in certain wars and our military helps keep our allies safe. South korea is it's own nation thanks to us and knows we will help if NK invades. we helped rebuild japan after ww2, Australia knows that if china invades them they can call on us to help etc.

We are involved in International affairs. Look at all the wars we've fought and other actions we've taken. IN fact many would want us to be less involved in international affairs. Also, we do invest a lot of money into medicine, science and other fields, not just our military.

You really shouldn't talk about things you have little knowledge in.

[The Lamb]

Melva is right Kim. One thing that so many people forget about is that with the US as an ally, they dont need to fund much of a military and can take that revenue they would have used for defense and put it towards social programs for their 24 million people Imagine what we could do if we only needed to worry about the populations in our 8 largest cities (24 mil ish).

An ex-girlfriend of mine was from Canada, and used to brag about how peaceful Canada was and that everyone loved them and how their medical system was awesome. A few things changed in our relationship.

Back story, Canada has food, diamonds, oil, and many other valuable resources... why wouldn't another country want them... NORAD is why

We did an exercise with Canada out of my base in when i was in Utah. We told them we were coming, just not when. We launched with 16 fighters and two heavy transports. We crossed the border, took out all their alert air craft without loosing one and landed our heavy's at Cold Lake air base and raised our flag. We took over Canada with 16 planes Guess what, they dont have a very big military because we are here so they can focus on medical.

Here is the second lesson she learned when i had to take her to the emergency room. I was upset that it took us 3 hours to get in and out, and she was super happy. I asked why, she said in Canada it can take 8 hours just to get into a private room to be seen if your at the right specialty clinic.

Funny, people here say that is better. The USA needs to ensure that the USA is taken care of first, thats the point of being a sovereign nation. Anything left over can then go to helping the rest of the world. I dont think we should have 150k homeless in California (yes that is accurate) and still sending money to help the homeless in other countries. Im not being heartless, i just think we should help our own people first.

[Lachlan]

yeah I know about other leaders not doing anything but then if that is the case then that shows a weak spot in your system that they cannot be legally obliged to follow the experts. I agree that WHO did not do a very good job but just because they have failed once doesn't mean you should withdraw from it and blame it all on them. Also you guys have gone around and started a few wars by yourselves that were not completely justified and then withdrew from having not completing your goals and then destabilizing the country further making it worse like Vietnam and Afghanistan and maybe Iraq but I don't know as much about that so I'll leave that as a maybe. Another thing is you need to be involved in international affairs to stop things from happening. Isolating yourselves like in WW1 and WW2 didn't work and in my view was kinda pointless. Instead you guys should focus your more of your vast resources into science, Medicine, NASA etc instead of focusing on your defence force and learrn to manage your resources better because you guys are kinda inefficient when it comes to money than say us Aussies because the general trend is that smaller countries can make something just as good with less resources and money than you guys

also I agreed with the ban from the very start, knew that was the right thing and the smartest thing to do

Far as I know no country has it set up that political leaders are LEGGALLY obliged to follow the opinions or directions of experts of ANY field. They can certainly listen to them and take it into consideration, but be legally obliged to do what they say? No, that's stupid, why bother electing political leaders then if experts of a field can just tell them what to do? They aren't even leaders at that point.

WHO can get their money from other nations. If we decide we can not trust them, and no longer want to fund them that is our right as a nation to stop supporting them. You and other nations might not like it, but too bad. It's our money, not yours's. Maybe if WHO improves and proves it can be trusted again, we might fund it again. Until then, I don't support giving money to an organization that failed us so badly.

In all 3 of your examples, crap was already hitting the fan in all those areas. Did we make it worse? Debatable. But it wasn't pleasant in the first place. We also helped out alot in certain wars and our military helps keep our allies safe. South korea is it's own nation thanks to us and knows we will help if NK invades. we helped rebuild japan after ww2, Australia knows that if china invades them they can call on us to help etc.

We are involved in International affairs. Look at all the wars we've fought and other actions we've taken. IN fact many would want us to be less involved in international affairs. Also, we do invest a lot of money into medicine, science and other fields, not just our military.

You really shouldn't talk about things you have little knowledge in.

really lol? You said maybe we shouldn't be as involved in international affairs. I was responding to that and you think I said you weren't involved in international relations. I know you spend a lot of money on other stuff since you guys have a lot of money in the first place. I think you did make it worse in places such as my examples except for Iraq as I said I don't know much about that conflict. In Vietnam you definitely made it worse, Agent Orange dropped on Vietnam is still causing deformities in newborn babies, disabilities rose and you basically killed their economy since you bombed all their infrastructure. I get that it was war but still if you guys were getting that desperate and loosing then the war was basically unwinnable. Afghanistan still has the Taliban there, the corruption is widespread there and it is still a third world country. Country building is hard though so I get why you left there. You guys might be the most powerful conventional fighting force in the world but against Guerrilla troops in irregular and unconventional warfare you guys are mediocre at best. Your way of fighting a unconventional war with conventional tactics does not work, prolongs the war and eventually you loose destabilizing the country. Follow and copy smaller countries tactics like Australia's tactics or British tactics because our troops are better at that kind of warfare. Anyway point is your points aren't exactly valid against most of mine since I meant offensive wars not defensive ones like if South Korea gets attacked etc. Also Korea was a more conventional war since there was a set border and the North Koreans came from the North. Also there were British, Commonwealth and American units already in or near Korea so it would have been easy to help since you were in the general vicinity of the war

[Lachlan]

Melva is right Kim. One thing that so many people forget about is that with the US as an ally, they dont need to fund much of a military and can take that revenue they would have used for defense and put it towards social programs for their 24 million people Imagine what we could do if we only needed to worry about the populations in our 8 largest cities (24 mil ish).

An ex-girlfriend of mine was from Canada, and used to brag about how peaceful Canada was and that everyone loved them and how their medical system was awesome. A few things changed in our relationship.

Back story, Canada has food, diamonds, oil, and many other valuable resources... why wouldn't another country want them... NORAD is why

We did an exercise with Canada out of my base in when i was in Utah. We told them we were coming, just not when. We launched with 16 fighters and two heavy transports. We crossed the border, took out all their alert air craft without loosing one and landed our heavy's at Cold Lake air base and raised our flag. We took over Canada with 16 planes Guess what, they dont have a very big military because we are here so they can focus on medical.

Here is the second lesson she learned when i had to take her to the emergency room. I was upset that it took us 3 hours to get in and out, and she was super happy. I asked why, she said in Canada it can take 8 hours just to get into a private room to be seen if your at the right specialty clinic.

Funny, people here say that is better. The USA needs to ensure that the USA is taken care of first, thats the point of being a sovereign nation. Anything left over can then go to helping the rest of the world. I dont think we should have 150k homeless in California (yes that is accurate) and still sending money to help the homeless in other countries. Im not being heartless, i just think we should help our own people first.

well some of your allies are self sufficient in terms of capacity to defend themselves like in Europe. Canada's military has been getting worse for a bit anyway and it has nowhere it can be attacked. Places further away though have potential enemies near them that's why Australia has the capacity to defend ourselves relatively well except for nuclear attack but hey nobody can really protect themselves from nukes even the US. Also Draque that is what I mean, spending more to help homeless etc

[Argo]

Australia has the capacity to defend itself except for nuke...

Kim...Aust population 2020- 25.5Mill...Mainland coastline length all the way excl Tasmania 35,877k.
ADF - Full time personnel 58,656 part time personnel 21,694

The RAAF has 259 aircraft, of which 110 are combat aircraft.
The Royal Australian Navy consists of nearly 50 commissioned vessels and over (16,000 personnel incl in above figures)

The alliance between Australia and the United States was formalised through the ANZUS Treaty in 1951. More than 60 years later, the Treaty remains the foundation of our security relationship with the United States.

Yes a mighty global fire-power we are...lol...USA are our wartime allies. We couldn't defend ourselves at all...not saying they arent good at what they do...we would just be outnumbered in most cases. We cannot surveil the entire circumference 24/7 as it is.


China population 1,439,323,776
Republic of China Armed Forces
Active personnel 2,035,000
Reserve personnel 520,000

Game over.

[Lachlan]

Australia has the capacity to defend itself except for nuke...

Kim...Aust population 2020- 25.5Mill...Mainland coastline length all the way excl Tasmania 35,877k.
ADF - Full time personnel 58,656 part time personnel 21,694

The RAAF has 259 aircraft, of which 110 are combat aircraft.
The Royal Australian Navy consists of nearly 50 commissioned vessels and over (16,000 personnel incl in above figures)

The alliance between Australia and the United States was formalised through the ANZUS Treaty in 1951. More than 60 years later, the Treaty remains the foundation of our security relationship with the United States.

Yes a mighty global fire-power we are...lol...USA are our wartime allies. We couldn't defend ourselves at all...not saying they arent good at what they do...we would just be outnumbered in most cases. We cannot surveil the entire circumference 24/7 as it is.


China population 1,439,323,776
Republic of China Armed Forces
Active personnel 2,035,000
Reserve personnel 520,000

Game over.

Not really, Australia is too far away. China does not have the logistical power to get to Australia unless it starts attacking South like Japan did and get's a base where it is in range of Australia. Or it could buy one I guess. The Maximum amount of combat planes like jets etc would be outnumbered by the RAAF. Not by much but we would see them coming. Our defences are situated to the North of Australia mostly and unless a lot of Chinese Ships, aircraft and soldiers can somehow get past our detection systems we would still be able to fight. Besides as you said we would be outnumbered so we would just use Guerrilla warfare if all else fails but why would they bother fighting us. They cannot hold all of Australia very well. I mean their army is massive but even if say the US fought us it's simply too much land to cover. Sure we would have trouble since we would run out of fuel in about a month if we are completely cut off but we got stockpiles of older guns like the L1A1 which can still kill.

[Meliva]

really lol? You said maybe we shouldn't be as involved in international affairs. I was responding to that and you think I said you weren't involved in international relations. I know you spend a lot of money on other stuff since you guys have a lot of money in the first place. I think you did make it worse in places such as my examples except for Iraq as I said I don't know much about that conflict. In Vietnam you definitely made it worse, Agent Orange dropped on Vietnam is still causing deformities in newborn babies, disabilities rose and you basically killed their economy since you bombed all their infrastructure. I get that it was war but still if you guys were getting that desperate and loosing then the war was basically unwinnable. Afghanistan still has the Taliban there, the corruption is widespread there and it is still a third world country. Country building is hard though so I get why you left there. You guys might be the most powerful conventional fighting force in the world but against Guerrilla troops in irregular and unconventional warfare you guys are mediocre at best. Your way of fighting a unconventional war with conventional tactics does not work, prolongs the war and eventually you loose destabilizing the country. Follow and copy smaller countries tactics like Australia's tactics or British tactics because our troops are better at that kind of warfare. Anyway point is your points aren't exactly valid against most of mine since I meant offensive wars not defensive ones like if South Korea gets attacked etc. Also Korea was a more conventional war since there was a set border and the North Koreans came from the North. Also there were British, Commonwealth and American units already in or near Korea so it would have been easy to help since you were in the general vicinity of the war

I did not say we should not be involved in ANY international affairs, I said we should be LESS involved. I don't like how much money we send to global organizations and other countries, or how often we get involved in foreign conflicts. I don't think we should become a hermit nation either though.

It's true, we didn't do so well in Vietnam. But like you said-they used unconventional tactics, and ultimately as much damage as we may have done, we could have done far more and won the war. It also didn't help that the Vietnamese who we were fighting for didn't want to fight at all for the most part.

Also, there were French forces in Vietnam. They also failed. Also, great military and tactics you Aussies got, when your military LITERALLY failed to handle Emus. Easily a force for the ages . Hilarious you want to claim you are better at small tactics when you couldn't handle oversized birds

It's also funny to me that you decided to ignore my comment on your idiotic point that political leaders should be legally obliged to listen to experts. Again, at that point, what's the point in getting political leaders? Might as well just put these experts in charge since they would be legally able to command our leaders.

Also China would eat you for breakfast without outside help. They could island hop if need be, taking control of the islands between you guys. Also, how are you going to use guerrilla warfare? Most of your population is on the coasts-they could just bomb them into oblivion with ships and planes, and drive you into the desert that makes up the center. You are really biased to just how good your country really is honestly. Hate to break it to you-it's not as great as you seem to think it is.

[Argo]

Also China would eat you for breakfast without outside help. They could island hop if need be, taking control of the islands between you guys. Also, how are you going to use guerrilla warfare? Most of your population is on the coasts-they could just bomb them into oblivion with ships and planes, and drive you into the desert that makes up the center. You are really biased to just how good your country really is honestly. Hate to break it to you-it's not as great as you seem to think it is.

Absolutely, Mel.
It already happened in WW11 - Darwin was bombed....Sydney harbour submarines.....Back to school with you Kim! Yes technology is more advanced but if we are as proficient and independent as you seem to think, we would not still have long held alliances. We wouldn't need them.

I for one, thank you USA!!

But hang on ... Australia is a great country for many reasons and other than the size of our defense force who continue to support the community every day in many ways, we are a lucky country. It is for the most part, a pretty peaceful place overall so hopefully we wont need US assistance anytime soon.

So you cant slag off on Australia bc ADF isn't massive. We are not a big country population-wise by comparison. And apathy is pretty much our ethos...lol

[Meliva]

Yes, I will admit that australia isn't a terrible country, or 3rd world or anything like that. It has a lot going for it. Isolated, so not many threats, hell China is the only major one really, beautiful land, a very unique array of animals(granted many are deadly, which is a negative) pretty good tech and well developed.

Wouldn't be my first choice of places to live in, mainly due to the deadly critters, but it's easily top ten of best places to live in in my opinion. It's a good place. I just think Kim is overestimating it's strength and it's benefits. I mean I understand wanting to be proud of your home, I am happy with mine, but It's also important to understand that you shouldn't be blind and biased to your homes faults.

I don't think the USA is a perfect place, we definitely have problems. I do think it's a great place to live, and I wouldn't want to live anywhere else, but I do admit we have our faults. Same as any nation really.

Edit-also the Emu war comment I made was more of a joke. Their military has come a long way since then, but that incident will always be a funny bit of history for me