TRUMP 2020!

[DezNutz]

Of course the model changes as new or better defined data is added. That is how science works. A theory is tested, refined and proved or disproved. None of them ever sprang fully-formed out of the box. A scientific theory is, logically, never fully proved because the possibility of new data disproving it can not be discounted. Thus the Einstiens Theory of Relativity we know today is not the first one he came up with. Its the Modified Theory of Relativity.

But with all the new data and models on climate change, none say it is not happening. It changes the timespan, the severity, but not the actuality of it.
Science changes or modifies its theories according to the facts discovered by testing them. It never denies the facts for then it becomes politics and not science. Politics changes or denies the facts to prove or disprove its theories. I think we can see which method you prefer.

Yes scientific theory. That's the point. Updating the models doesn't make it science fact.

[Most Lee Harmless]

Nor does denial disprove it. Plainly 'something' is going on because large areas of ice-cover dont just disappear for no reason. The overall temperature of the globe does not go up at the current rates for no reason. Now, you coukd posit the scientific theory that it is a dieties revenge for homosexual marriage (yep, they did.), but that does fail on the repeatability test.
Saying 'sh*t happens, it always has, get over it' is not scientific either.
That 'something' is happening is why scientists of all disciplines are trying to find out why about. Its not just a handful of meteorologists looking at seaweed and debating the shadow of a groundhog. Matters are a bit more advanced than that these days and historically, as they improve tgeir data collection and modelling, meteorology becomes ever more reliable in its forecasting. As does all science. And guess what, none of them say it aint happening. None of them say its accidental, or caused by moonbeams, or intergalactic modal shifts in the space-time continuum... its here, its happening and denial is not scientific, its a political choice to avoid taking responsibility for making the impact less traumatic upon us all.
Its the political equivalent of sitting in a lounge on the Titanic sipping champagne and agreeing that icebergs are only water, they dont drift this far south and hey, we're unsinkable anyway! More ice?

[Argo]

A nice discussion about climate change.

And then Dez enters to tell me that climate change is a hoax.

Several reasons. Mass deforestation. Lack of clean rain water. What would CO2 emissions have to do with the amount of trees? The amount of trees affects how much CO2 is in the atmosphere at a given time, but not vice versa.

But who cares? Obviously the government is exaggerating how serious climate change is to make those USDs. Obviously climate scientists have been paid off by Obama to tell people that Climate change exists. Obviously it doesn't or Dez would say that it did.

>>>What would CO2 emissions have to do with the amount of trees?<<<

You seem to claim to be climate change expert - but I cant believe you actually wrote this Mustache....Really?

[Dmanwuzhere]

As does all science. And guess what, none of them say it aint happening. None of them say its accidental, or caused by moonbeams, or intergalactic modal shifts in the space-time continuum... its here, its happening and denial is not scientific

Khabibullo Abdusamatov, astrophysicist at Pulkovo Observatory of the Russian Academy of Sciences.
Sallie Baliunas, retired astrophysicist, Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics.
Timothy Ball, historical climatologist, and retired professor of geography at the University of Winnipeg.
Ian Clark, hydrogeologist, professor, Department of Earth Sciences, University of Ottawa.
Vincent Courtillot, geophysicist, member of the French Academy of Sciences.
Doug Edmeades, PhD., soil scientist, officer of the New Zealand Order of Merit.
David Dilley, B.S. and M.S. in meteorology, CEO Global Weather Oscillations Inc.
David Douglass, solid-state physicist, professor, Department of Physics and Astronomy, University of Rochester.
Don Easterbrook, emeritus professor of geology, Western Washington University.
William Happer, physicist specializing in optics and spectroscopy; emeritus professor, Princeton University.
Victor Manuel Velasco Herrera, Theoretical Physicist and Researcher, Institute of Geophysics of the National Autonomous University of Mexico.
Ole Humlum, professor of geology at the University of Oslo.
Wibjörn Karlén, professor emeritus of geography and geology at the University of Stockholm.
William Kininmonth, meteorologist, former Australian delegate to World Meteorological Organization Commission for Climatology.
David Legates, associate professor of geography and director of the Center for Climatic Research, University of Delaware.
Anthony Lupo, professor of atmospheric science at the University of Missouri.
Jennifer Marohasy, an Australian biologist, former director of the Australian Environment Foundation.
Tad Murty, oceanographer; adjunct professor, Departments of Civil Engineering and Earth Sciences, University of Ottawa.
Tim Patterson, paleoclimatologist and professor of geology at Carleton University in Canada.
Ian Plimer, professor emeritus of mining geology, the University of Adelaide.
Arthur B. Robinson, American politician, biochemist and former faculty member at the University of California, San Diego.
Murry Salby, atmospheric scientist, former professor at Macquarie University and University of Colorado.
Nicola Scafetta, research scientist in the physics department at Duke University.
Tom Segalstad, geologist; associate professor at University of Oslo.
Nedialko (Ned) T. Nikolov, PhD in Ecological Modelling, physical scientist for the U.S. Forest Service
Nir Shaviv, professor of physics focusing on astrophysics and climate science at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.
Fred Singer, professor emeritus of environmental sciences at the University of Virginia.
Willie Soon, astrophysicist, Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics.
Roy Spencer, meteorologist; principal research scientist, University of Alabama in Huntsville.
Henrik Svensmark, physicist, Danish National Space Center.
George H. Taylor, retired director of the Oregon Climate Service at Oregon State University.
Jan Veizer, environmental geochemist, professor emeritus from University of Ottawa.


well these guys disagree feel free to go take their degrees and have them fired from their jobs cause pg players speak for all scientists and we cant have that

god forbid it be natural processes as they believe it would just ruin the whole dang argument if there are no moonbeam unicorns or gay weddings to be the scoffing points of the 97 percent

now since everyone is so quick to call on scientists having 97 percent of the community agreeing on it please respond with a list of the 97 percent and where they work

[Most Lee Harmless]

Uhuh.. c/p the signatories to an open letter. Great research. Did you actually have a look at who they work for? Who funds them? Well, in short, its those wonderful philanthropists over at Big Oil, who, we can all agree, have no interest at all in clouding the issues over climate change.

Its called 'Doubt'.. a neat PR trick first used succesfully by the tobacco industry. Just keep feeding enough men in white coats to stand up and say, 'you know, tobacco might not cause cancer?'

So 97 scientists doubt climate change. Or do they? Take Patterson for one. Exxon pay his bills. But anyway, he doesnt deny climate change. He merely says its not something we can do anything about. He doubts it is caused by human agency. He thinks it is sunspots. Or cycles. Or moonbeams. Nah, not moonbeams but hey, 97 scientists said it aint our problem.

Did you know why they wrote that letter?

Yep, in reply to over 200 who say it is. So, you know, thats 2-1 already. The majority of scientists agree climate change is happening and human agency is a cause. 'A' cause.. not 'the' cause. It may well be sunspots aint helping but they are not 'the' cause either.

Back to my point. They aint saying it aint happening. They are arguing why its happening. Which is okay, that is how scientific debate works. But those who deny it is happening run their own agenda, and 'doubt' is a pretty good weapon in furthering it.

But hey, what do we or they know... more ice in your drink?

[The Lamb]

So i think the break down here is that NO ONE HERE has said climate change isnt happening. IT ABSOLUTLY IS. The debate is on humanities affect on the climate over time vrs. claiming the world will end in 100 years unless we drive electric cars or vote for Biden.

When irrational claims are made, expect them to be met with rational thoughts. No trees in 30 years, lmao. Dont people know that there are rotating tree farms for a large part of the wood we use. Most deforestation comes from developing nations for families looking to farm or at least thats the largest issue in south America with the rain forest.

Speaking of farming, Blue, im sure you support organic farming. You never touched the issues cause by the 2+ acres per person per year needed to farm "organicly" or the extra water needed per acre. Isnt cutting down extra trees to make larger fields for organic farms and all the extra water they need an issue to you or do you just not have a soul?

Now the funny thing here is that there are some that expect everyone to thing that the only reason the ice sheets and glaciers melted and continue to since then was because of humans driving cars 20 thousand years ago. No? Thats not what your saying? THEN WHAT IS THE REASON THE GLACERS HAVE BEEN MELTING for 20k years? Come on, say it once... it will make you feel good... come on, everyone is doing it

[Lachlan]

It's not that glaciers haven't been melting, they are just melting faster than they naturally do. Glaciers before about the 1950's would shrink and grow depending on the year. Now most are shrinking rapidly and only a handful have gotten bigger. Climate change is normal but we have made it abnormal because the C02 is making the 2 extremes in temperature more extreme like the record breaking bush fires

[Lachlan]

So i think the break down here is that NO ONE HERE has said climate change isnt happening. IT ABSOLUTLY IS. The debate is on humanities affect on the climate over time vrs. claiming the world will end in 100 years unless we drive electric cars or vote for Biden.

When irrational claims are made, expect them to be met with rational thoughts. No trees in 30 years, lmao. Dont people know that there are rotating tree farms for a large part of the wood we use. Most deforestation comes from developing nations for families looking to farm or at least thats the largest issue in south America with the rain forest.

Speaking of farming, Blue, im sure you support organic farming. You never touched the issues cause by the 2+ acres per person per year needed to farm "organicly" or the extra water needed per acre. Isnt cutting down extra trees to make larger fields for organic farms and all the extra water they need an issue to you or do you just not have a soul?

Now the funny thing here is that there are some that expect everyone to thing that the only reason the ice sheets and glaciers melted and continue to since then was because of humans driving cars 20 thousand years ago. No? Thats not what your saying? THEN WHAT IS THE REASON THE GLACERS HAVE BEEN MELTING for 20k years? Come on, say it once... it will make you feel good... come on, everyone is doing it

yeah organic farming does not stop climate change in fact it makes it worse because you need much more land cleared to make room for the animals. Speaking of these animals one of my friends tried to argue with me when I said me liking and eating chicken is worse than eating beef even though beef is the most unsustainable it was kinda funny ngl

[Dmanwuzhere]

I have been put under such an enormous group pressure in recent days from all over the world that has become virtually unbearable to me. If this is going to continue I will be unable to conduct my normal work and will even start to worry about my health and safety. I see therefore no other way out therefore than resigning from GWPF. I had not expecting such an enormous world-wide pressure put at me from a community that I have been close to all my active life. Colleagues are withdrawing their support, other colleagues are withdrawing from joint authorship etc.

I see no limit and end to what will happen. It is a situation that reminds me about the time of McCarthy. I would never have expecting anything similar in such an original peaceful community as meteorology. Apparently it has been transformed in recent years.

Lennart Bengtsson




Whenever you hear the consensus of scientists agrees on something or other, reach for your wallet, because you’re being had.

Michael Crichton


natural processes according to the last list
while you attribute political motive to create an argue point but call it a conspiracy theory when others agree with michael crichton seems a bit onesided in an argument
the fact is no one here can argue this point to any degree of fact because there is actually so little facts to argue at all


the following scientist publicly question the ipcc climate models now they may have purchased gas a time or two as well like the last ones but if thats your go to rebuttal of people so hyper qualified to speak on the subject you will understand why i have the gall to ask to see your qualifications to dispute any of them

Dr. Jarl R. Ahlbeck, chemical engineer at Abo Akademi University in Finland, former Greenpeace member.
David Bellamy, botanist.
Lennart Bengtsson, meteorologist, Reading University.
Piers Corbyn, owner of the business WeatherAction which makes weather forecasts.
Susan Crockford, Zoologist, adjunct professor in Anthropology at the University of Victoria.
Judith Curry, professor and former chair of the School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences at the Georgia Institute of Technology.
Joseph D’Aleo, past Chairman American Meteorological Society’s Committee on Weather Analysis and Forecasting, former Professor of Meteorology, Lyndon State College.
Freeman Dyson, professor emeritus of the School of Natural Sciences, Institute for Advanced Study; Fellow of the Royal Society.
Ivar Giaever, Norwegian–American physicist and Nobel laureate in physics (1973)
Dr. Kiminori Itoh, Ph.D., Industrial Chemistry, University of Tokyo
Steven E. Koonin, theoretical physicist and director of the Center for Urban Science and Progress at New York University.
Richard Lindzen, Alfred P. Sloan emeritus professor of atmospheric science at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and member of the National Academy of Sciences.
Craig Loehle, ecologist and chief scientist at the National Council for Air and Stream Improvement.
Sebastian Lüning, geologist, famed for his book The Cold Sun.
Ross McKitrick, professor of economics and CBE chair in sustainable commerce, University of Guelph.
Patrick Moore, former president of Greenpeace Canada.
Nils-Axel Mörner, retired head of the Paleogeophysics and Geodynamics Department at Stockholm University, former chairman of the INQUA Commission on Sea Level Changes and Coastal Evolution (1999–2003).
Garth Paltridge, retired chief research scientist, CSIRO Division of Atmospheric Research and retired director of the Institute of the Antarctic Cooperative Research Centre, visiting fellow Australian National University.
Roger A. Pielke, Jr., professor of environmental studies at the Center for Science and Technology Policy Research at the University of Colorado at Boulder.
Denis Rancourt, former professor of physics at University of Ottawa, research scientist in condensed matter physics, and in environmental and soil science.
Harrison Schmitt, geologist, Apollo 17 astronaut, former US senator.
Peter Stilbs, professor of physical chemistry at Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm.
Philip Stott, professor emeritus of biogeography at the University of London.
Hendrik Tennekes, retired director of research, Royal Netherlands Meteorological Institute.
Anastasios Tsonis, distinguished professor of atmospheric science at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee.
Fritz Vahrenholt, German politician and energy executive with a doctorate in chemistry.
Valentina Zharkova, professor in mathematics at Northumbria University. BSc/MSc in applied mathematics and astronomy, a Ph.D. in astrophysics.

the fact is i dont argue for or against instead i argue no one really knows enough about it here to offer a solid argument one way of the other
yes yes i have heard all the same talking points as you and could easily grab one and mimic what i heard but its not really me arguing and my talking point only goes so far.... as does everyone elses

some scientist give no reason and believe the cause is unknown like the following
but of course with all their study on the subject pg scholars are renown for thier supreme knowledge and can refute them with gas allegations and basic talking points

Syun-Ichi Akasofu, retired professor of geophysics and founding director of the International Arctic Research Center of the University of Alaska Fairbanks.
Claude Allègre, French politician; geochemist, emeritus professor at Institute of Geophysics (Paris).
Robert Balling, a professor of geography at Arizona State University.
Pål Brekke, solar astrophycisist, senior advisor Norwegian Space Centre.
John Christy, professor of atmospheric science and director of the Earth System Science Center at the University of Alabama in Huntsville, contributor to several IPCC reports.
Petr Chylek, space and remote sensing sciences researcher, Los Alamos National Laboratory.
David Deming, geology professor at the University of Oklahoma.
Stanley B. Goldenberg a meteorologist with NOAA/AOML’s Hurricane Research Division.
Vincent R. Gray, New Zealand physical chemist with expertise in coal ashes.
Keith E. Idso, botanist, former adjunct professor of biology at Maricopa County Community College District and the vice president of the Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change.
Kary Mullis, 1993 Nobel laureate in chemistry, inventor of the polymerase chain reaction (PCR) method.
Antonino Zichichi, emeritus professor of nuclear physics at the University of Bologna and president of the World Federation of Scientists.

there are even some who feel their will be few negative effects like the following

Indur M. Goklany, electrical engineer, science and technology policy analyst for the United States Department of the Interior.
Craig D. Idso, geographer, faculty researcher, Office of Climatology, Arizona State University and founder of the Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change.
Sherwood B. Idso, former research physicist, USDA Water Conservation Laboratory, and adjunct professor, Arizona State University.
Patrick Michaels, senior fellow at the Cato Institute and retired research professor of environmental science at the University of Virginia.

the following folks are dead and even in their death i put them over the pg scientist as they left publications that can be studied by folks who create a stir of interest when they say here hold my beer and begin talking out of their pants on fire lil behinds

August H. “Augie” Auer Jr. (1940–2007), retired New Zealand MetService meteorologist and past professor of atmospheric science at the University of Wyoming.
Reid Bryson (1920–2008), emeritus professor of atmospheric and oceanic sciences, University of Wisconsin-Madison.
Robert M. Carter (1942–2016), former head of the School of Earth Sciences at James Cook University.
Chris de Freitas (1948–2017), associate professor, School of Geography, Geology and Environmental Science, University of Auckland.
William M. Gray (1929–2016), professor emeritus and head of the Tropical Meteorology Project, Department of Atmospheric Science, Colorado State University.
Yuri Izrael (1930–2014), former chairman, Committee for Hydrometeorology (USSR); former firector, Institute of Global Climate and Ecology (Russian Academy of Science); vice-chairman of IPCC, 2001-2007.
Robert Jastrow (1925–2008), American astronomer, physicist, cosmologist and leading NASA scientist who, together with Fred Seitz and William Nierenberg, established the George C. Marshall Institute.
Harold (“Hal”) Warren Lewis (1923–2011), emeritus professor of physics and former department chairman at the University of California, Santa Barbara.
Frederick Seitz (1911–2008), solid-state physicist, former president of the National Academy of Sciences and co-founder of the George C. Marshall Institute in 1984.
Joanne Simpson (1923-2010), first woman in the United States to receive a Ph.D. in meteorology,

now why go through the bother of bringing these folks in on seperate lists well it reminds folks that all that education(notice the listing of degrees and other boring stuff) is being refuted by folks who really cant lay out those type of credentials yet speak with authority and use rainbows booty bumping and bad gas as arguing points but will hear no argument along the same line and here i have dozens of genuine bonafida experts


well i have one thought on that


if the pg experts cant make ya smile
no one can

[Mack]

im no professor, but i look at it like all through history the same scientists have talked about ice ages really hot times back and forth..... what that seems like to me is the earth goes through a different type of summer winter cycle... its been doing long before we build fire....