TRUMP 2020!

[Leo]

That might have been the worst presidential debate ever.

Trump was way too aggressive and kept interrupting the moderator and Biden. Biden did a little of interrupting, but not on the same scale. There was so much talking over each other that I could hardly hear anything they were actually saying.

Mack, Biden is way too moderate to support the green new deal. If he says he doesn't support him, I believe it (although I am a little sad :|) because he has always been pretty middle of the road and the green new deal is not.

Dez, did you even watch the debate? Even Trump supporters were embarrassed with the way Trump behaved! And what the hell does "Stand back and stand by" mean? A bunch of white supremacist organizations practically threw a party when he said that.

I will say I was glad that one of the topics was the environment, because usually it is mostly glossed over in debates. I don't agree with either of their approaches to climate change, but it makes me slightly more comfortable to hear that two men in their 70s who won't be alive when it gets rough are talking about solutions. Of course what Trump was saying was absolute B.S. Most of his arguments were based on guesses like "Joe, if you were president we would have 400K dead now".

I'm a little disappointed in Biden for taking the bait that Trump laid out for him. Joe should have kept going when he was getting interrupted and not responded to Trump's sidetracking insults. I was also hoping that Biden would use most of his time to talk about what he would do for the country, rather than use it to reply to Trump attacking Biden's family.

Through a certainly unbiased perspective, it is safe to say that there probably was no winner. If I had to choose, I would definitely say Biden. That would mainly be because of how Trump acted. Even y'all that plan on voting for him, you must admit that he acted completely inappropriately.

[Haron]

It saddens me how polarised the USA has become. Russia and China are loving this - and doing all they can to covertly further the polarisation.

"A house divided on itself cannot stand".

[Leo]

It saddens me how polarised the USA has become. Russia and China are loving this - and doing all they can to covertly further the polarisation.

"A house divided on itself cannot stand".

What do you mean by that?

[Haron]

I mean that the distance between the "sides" in politics are ever increasing. The tone in debates hardening. People are identifying as either Democrat or Republican, and listening to reason, considering arguments and actually changing one's opinion is becoming a rare thing.

And by no means all, but definitely some, of this polarisation stems from how social media keeps feeding people with opinions they already support - often even "stronger" versions. And there are groups who know how to exploit this to increase the distance between the "sides" further. Stories, true or false, with more "extreme" views on both sides, are being tailored. And appear in the feeds of people who may take it to hearth, becoming even firmer in their beliefs - and some times also more "extreme".

[Leo]

I see what you mean. I don't think we can do anything about it though.

[The Lamb]

Yeah, it was pretty bad, Trump interrupted a bit too much and Biden wouldn't answer a question... sigghhhhhhh. I was hoping for more substance.

Blue, you still havent answered my climate change question. Since the climate is always changing, getting hotter and then cooler, then hotter and then cooler and has done this for 4 billion years, what is the perfect climate?

Was it before the Himalaya's popped up and change climate patterns and the mid east was still a jungle millions of years ago?

Was it during the middle Holocene period 7000-5000 years ago when the temps were higher than they are now allowing civilizations to fully grow and thrive?

Was it during the mid-evil warm period when temperatures were warmer than they are now and crops and population grew exponentially and Greenland was actually green and farmed?

Was it during the little ice age of the late from mid 1600 to 1900 and the Thames river would freeze solid and they would have fairs on it?

Was it during between the 1920's-1960's when we had large droughts, the dust bowl and far more large hurricanes than we do now?

Was it the 1960's till the 1980's when the temperatures fell and we had less hurricanes and the fear was global cooling?

So what's the answer? Since the earth climate is constantly changing, what is the perfect climate? Or is it a purple dragon for people to forever chase?

[Leo]

There is no such thing as a scientifically "perfect" climate. Perfect is subjective.

A good climate for some species will kill off others.

The difference is that what we have coming will kill off almost ALL species, rather than just a handful. It isn't enough time for any major adaptations or any sort of evolution that would let certain ones survive.

Humans, of course, will probably survive, but just barely. We will have less space because of higher water levels. The air will be nearly toxic to breath, due to most trees dying.

Climate change is serious shit, and if we don't take action NOW, it's going to be too late.

I'm not talking about some change that's due in 500 years. I'm talking about a massive change that is due within our lifetimes. 2050. A prediction from a combination of experts showed that if we do nothing about it and continue on the same path we are on now, the world population in 2050 will be roughly 6 billion, compared to the regular estimate of 10 billion.

Experts know best. Please don't try to tell me about how really it's not that bad because of some glacial cycle BS. It cannot be determined using just numbers or statistics. It can only be determined with scientific tests and extensive training.

Whatever.

Draque, would you please explain to me what "Stand back and stand by" is supposed to mean? White supremacists took it as a green light. Why can't he just condemn white supremacists? It's super easy.

[Most Lee Harmless]

Weather changes within a range of extremes. I recall snow falling in June when I was a child. Did not mean the ice age was upon us. But climate change is not about a natural ideal as much as it is about how we deal with it. Our societies are closely linked to our environments. There is a reason why the type of housing we build in the desert is different to that we build in the Artic tundra. The food we grow changes too. Varieties that thrive in Arizona do not thrive in Alaska. Over centuries we have developed and refined our food, clothing, housing, transport, even our social lives, to adapt to the environment we live in. Change that and we hit a massive wall of problems. The UK does not have malarial mosquitoes. They havent had to worry about dealing with them. Their housing is not designed to handle them. But the zone in which they can thrive creeps ever northwards. Now, you can argue that they were prevalent a few thousand years ago in the Kent marshes. Those marshes have long been drained and the environment which was on the edge of that compatible with mosquitos was lost. But it can and will return. But it is not just mosquitoes and it is not just malaria. All sorts of insects and diseases are expanding their environments as the underlying climate changes.

We are on a ratchet, where the range of weather events moves inexorably along the scale to a climate which is warmer. Climate is not a fixed process, it is an ever-changing brew, but add more heat and the processes change in ways which we, humanity, are not adapted to.
It dont really matter 'why' it is changing, or whose agency is the prime cause. It is changing and we are going to have to deal with it at great cost and disruption to how we live.
Even if you deny that we have been an agency in the change you can not deny that we can be an agency in delaying the worst effects of it. We can start now to adapting our socities to handle the changes that are coming.

If it snows outside you dont go out in a bathing suit on the basis that its only temporary and the sun will come out tomorrow. You put on warm clothing. You adapt to the reality. The reality is the level of adaptation we are facing may be beyond us. So, slowing it down, buying time, that aint airy-fairy tree-hugger nonsense : thats wisdom.

[Leo]

If it snows outside you dont go out in a bathing suit on the basis that its only temporary and the sun will come out tomorrow. You put on warm clothing. You adapt to the reality.

That's a winner quote right there

[The Lamb]

What? I never said climate change wasnt real . It is absolutly real, at all times and forever. Blue, if it was far warmer than now millions of times before now... if it was far cooler million of times before now, what makes you think that most of life on earth will be lost over a few degrees ether way? Most of life didnt disappear in the middle ages, it thrived as in any other warm period, why is this different?

When it warms up we get more rain, yeah crops! When it cools off we get more snow, yeah glaciers! If the sea levels rise again as they have done many times before i suggest walking back away from the water on that beach, if the sea levels lower as they have done many times before then woohoo new ocean front property and we can use old beaches again that were under water for 10k years.

Of coarse we are adapted to more heat than now, we have done it many many times before when the planet was far hotter and we did it without Air Conditioning and refrigeration. History time, what is considered the cradle of civilization and how hot is it there? Its defiantly not a temperate zone Where did humanity get its start? We all came from Lucy right with our shared mitochondrial DNA? Pretty hot in Ethiopia, that must be why no one lives in Africa, way too hot there Must be why the Egyptians never developed into a civilization or had an empire, excessively heated period that was much hotter than now with far less Co2. Wierd huh?

I thought you were for science, why are glaciation cycles crap? But you are right, there is no perfect climate its a yoyo, i just cant make money off saying that. To quote one of dmans songs, " We got rid of plastic straws wrapped in paper for paper straws wrapped in plastic" Now thats real change lmao.

Danik is correct, we just adapt to what the earth throws at us but no fear mongering or sensationalism needed.