TRUMP 2020!

[The Lamb]

lol... thats funny, then i found this... and its only up through june

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzBdBj5QWyY

[Meliva]

Going back to the topic of trump as this is meant to be his thread not Bidens funny enough , just heard about his platinum plan to invest 500B dollars into black businesses, make Juneteenth a national holiday and other things. Gotta say, for someone who many claim to be racist, he either really stinks at being one, or the definitions changed

[Lachlan]

The only other option is to not vote at all, or vote for someone who has 0 chance in the election. Neither of which will have any lasting impact unless done on masse. Now folks could start a movement to try to do so, after all parties have come and gone before-while at the moment democrat and republican's are the main 2, it might not stay that way.

Now personally I don't bother voting as Kansas is a pretty deep red state, and I also tend to think of politics as more or less meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

Though if you look at history, it's almost always been this way. There has almost always been 2 main parties. First were the Federalists and democratic-replublicans, then feds died out and I think Whigs popped up, eventually the DR turned into just the dems I believe and republicans popped up a bit later.

Ultimately if folks just leave on masse to a third party, that will probably just shift the balance to that third party becoming one of the new 2.

Also, sometimes it's better to pick the lesser of 2 evils, then to not pick at all. Not always mind you, but take this case for example. I would rather trump be elected then Biden who I believe has dementia. Would I pick a third option that is better then both if I thought it was valid? Sure. Does that option actually exist at the moment? Not as far as I'm aware.

how many parties are there that are decently large and influential in the US apart from the 2 main ones like for example in Australia the greens is the third biggest party and then I think one nation is 4th

Again, history is a pretty good teacher. If you look at the history of presidents, no third party has EVER won the presidency. The president has always been elected from one of 2 main parties, the only exception being George Washington the first president, who funny enough warned against political parties and was never in one. After him the 2 main parties were Federalist and Democratic-Republican. After some time Feds died out and Whigs opposed the DR. Then eventually DR just became Democrats and short while later Republicans popped up. Now third parties have won lesser offices. But never came close to the presidency.

Also good video Dman, here's one I stumbled upon that I think is pretty good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMSwAbDIUWU

it's not impossible to win though just very hard and you need a genius to be able to do it like a non crazy Hitler

[Meliva]

Just because something isn't impossible, does not mean it's viable. It's not impossible for you to take your life savings, go to a casino, and put it all on black and walk out rich. Does that mean it's a viable way to get money? Or a wise investment? No.

And again, history is one of the best, if not the best teachers. Third parties have never won. In over 200 years. They-have-Never-won. In fact, after checking, they've only ever placed 2nd ONCE. That was largely due to the fact that the third party was Theodore Roosevelt. Now, I might be a bit biased, but I would say he is easily one of the best presidents we've ever had. His run in a third party was one of the most successful ones ever. Maybe the most succesful.

He got 27% of the popular vote and 88 electorates. Wilson who won got 41% popular and and 435 electorates. Winning 40 states to Teddys 6.

Voting for a third party is a waste. It only matters if the third party has a chance of doing what is called a realignment election. This typically happens when one of the main 2 parties starts to die out, or divides. At the moment, neither dems or republicans are at that point. Well, dems might be close honestly, but not this election.

Third parties are more effective at a local level. Then, maybe with time, hard work, and success, can build up. Start by trying to get third party leaders as mayors, city council, then work up the ladder. If they do a good job, and build a local following, over time maybe they can win states, from there, work up to the nation.

Don't just vote third party when they barely hold any cities, let alone states before you try going for the bloody nation. It's like a baseball team that loses half their games making plans to win the major leagues. It ain't gonna happen, short of a literal miracle.

[Leo]

Yep.

If you want, vote for a third party candidate in the primaries. That's cool. But a third party vote in the election is a vote thrown away. Unless of course everyone voted for who they truly wanted, and not who had the most likely chances of winning...

Anyway, on to Trump.

What is this I hear about him not promising a peaceful transition of power if he loses? I could be wrong but a president who refuses to leave office upon defeat becomes threat to democracy, and with it the nation. I don't think he realizes that the military is authorized to use force in order to get a president out of office if they refuse.

[Meliva]

Gotta love how no matter what good he does, you just prefer to continually sling accusations at him without proper context on both sides.

HIlary clinton literally said that if biden loses he shouldn't accept the results.

Trump, has floated about delaying the election til people can vote in person This won't work, and i don't agree with it, but I do think massive mail in voting is a bad idea. That is not refusing to peacefully transfer power.

He has not committed to accepting the results-he stated he would have to see. He refused to just say yes, and he refused to just say no. He probably want's to make sure that if he loses, he actually lost legitimately and not by fraud. Frankly with the fraud I've seen so far in other elections with mail in votes, I honestly don't blame the man. Hell the dems wasted so much time and resources slinging impeachment and countless investigations into him finding nothing, I think it wouldn't be a big deal for an investigation into Biden and mail in votes. Now I do think that this should be done after the fact and if proven he lost by fraud, then whatever biden/harris did while in power is undone, they both get kicked out and trump put back in. If he lost legitimately then stay the course.

[Leo]

Whether he loses by fraud or fairly (I bet my life that if he loses he will say it's because of fraud), he needs to peacefully transfer his power. Period. If he can prove fraud via private investigator, that's a different story. But if he loses, no matter whether or not he thinks there was fraudulent activity, he needs to transfer his power. Otherwise it is no longer a democracy, but rather a dictatorship.

By the way, what Hillary tells Biden to do is not the same as Biden saying that.

[The Lamb]

If you can go to the grocery store, you can go vote.
If you can go to a wedding, you can go vote
If you can go to a protest, you can go vote
If you can get gas at a gas station, you can go vote
If you can bring your kids to day care, you can go vote
If you can go to a restaurant, you can go vote
If you can go to the doctors, you can go vote
If you can go to school, you can vote (if old enough)
If you n go play with your friends in a band, you can go vote (if old enough)
If you can go to the liquor store, you can go vote
If you can go to the mall, you can go vote
If you can go to target, you can go vote
If you can go to starbucks, you can go vote

If you can.....
Shall i keep going with everything we all already do? Its ridiculous and has nothing to do with safety!!! Hell, I dont even think blue believes that one

There just comes a point when a person has to say, "yeah its a ploy, hope it helps the cause", at least if people are honest, they don't look like total morons, they look like people with a mission. Even during the impeachment, most people knew it was a tactic and wouldn't amount to anything.

Blue, you know what you spouting isn't real right, its fear mongering. You boggle my mind, life is gonna be rough for you my friend. Dude, one day we really should meet up, I have some great ocean front property in Arizona to sell ya, you will love it!!!!

[Leo]

Umm.

Thanks, but no thanks.

The reason that voting is different than shopping is well, half of the country will be doing it all at once!

If half of the country decided to go grocery shopping all at once, the spikes in cases would be massive!

What I don't understand is that it's not ok to protest during a pandemic, but it is ok to go inside a sweaty poorly ventilated building with 500 other people to cast a ballot?

What I am "spouting" is that there has to be - in order to maintain democracy - a peaceful transition of power.

[Meliva]

Whether he loses by fraud or fairly (I bet my life that if he loses he will say it's because of fraud), he needs to peacefully transfer his power. Period. If he can prove fraud via private investigator, that's a different story. But if he loses, no matter whether or not he thinks there was fraudulent activity, he needs to transfer his power. Otherwise it is no longer a democracy, but rather a dictatorship.

By the way, what Hillary tells Biden to do is not the same as Biden saying that.

see, this is the kind of hypocrisy that just baffles me. folks on the left are so bloody quick and eager to shout "well X bad person supports him so he's bad" Like when richard spencer initially supported trump. Or the KKK. Condemn trump on it, after all, he didn't refuse them, or deny it, so he must support them.

Then when the reverse happens you act like logical folk and say just because he doesn't refute them isn't the same.

Honestly how anyone could prefer Biden at this point is beyond me. No one knows what he does or does not stand for. He'll tell some folks fracking is going to be removed then the next rally he ain't gonna touch it. You know that Biden is against same sex marriage right? At least he said so at one point. Then later said he was fine with it and that he was one of the first to support it. He wasn't. Trump was funny enough.

Honestly at this point, Biden probably doesn't know what he stands for with his mental decline. Poor bloke can barely form a sentence. Bloody elder abuse what the dems are doing to that man. Don't like him honestly but it's sad still.

Also voting is not something done "all at once". Not to mention even if it WAS in the past, guess what? Wanna hear something that should be basic common bloody sense? We-can-make-changes. Hell, just extend the voting period, Set up more voting areas, limit the amount of voters per area per day, use social distancing, offer plenty of sanitezer etc. Isn't bloody rocket science to work out a safe way to hold in person voting. Don't act like it is.