TRUMP 2020!

[Leo the Conqueror]

They were actually quite peaceful as I've heard but the information isn't quite clear. I believe the gate thing is a myth. And the protesters were on the street and sidewalk, which is not their property.

But after all, isn't people abusing their second amendment right in order to stop people from exercising their first amendment right what this country is all about?

Anyway, what they did is considered terrorism by the government, which is why I said that they were capitalizing off of a crime.

I honestly can not believe just how hypocritical you are. You literally condone rioting, burning down buildings and other terrorist acts if it's for a movement and cause you agree and believe in, seemingly ignoring the fact that many innocent people have died, lives being ruined and other horrible things, yet a couple who simply pointed a gun-again just pointed it, didn't even fire a warning shot, let alone actually shoot anyone, and you want to call what they did terrorism.

I truly wish you were just messing around and trolling, because I just can't fathom how any sane rational adult, could have such asinine logic like that. Sadly looking at how people act, I know that isn't the case, No wonder if a god or gods exist they don't directly interact with humanity.

Why I don't act like a sane adult? Hmm, maybe because I'm not an adult. I'm not trolling you, and yes my views are considered radical by many so I'm used to reactions like this. But, to be honest and see both sides, there have been horrible things on both. You don't understand how people can defend rioters, yet I don't understand how people can support a broken police system, deny that it exists, and then yell at those who speaks out against it. Or people that support such a corrupt president. While in my opinion both sides have points on each other, you are wasting your time pointing out the flaws in the opposition when they can do the same to you. The cycle is endless. Politics can be fun to discuss, but I gotta say it's a little overwhelming discussing it with so many people who believe that only they are right, and no one else. There is more than one "right" to each issue. Take the riots for example. While riots as standalone would be completely immoral, they only happened because of repetitive immoral actions. But that's my side. I know that your side is that the riots are still immoral. And I see your point, I just don't agree with it. If you want to become better at seeing the whole issue, start there, and try to think like your opposition to understand why they believe what they do. There is always a reason.

Good luck to all of you on your endless PG political war.

[Meliva]

I suggest you learn to take your own advice, before you lecture others to do the same. I do look at things on mutliple sides. It seems to me that you don't. Tell me, how would you feel if you returned home to your parents, to find out that rioters broke into your home, murdered your parents and stole all your stuff? Would you still support them? Or what if you find out a friend from your school was killed by a rioter? Would you still support them then?

The fact that the rioters are targetting people and places that had NOTHING to do with their issues, makes their rioting stupid and pointless. If I felt like the police were being unfair and biased towards me and my family and felt like fighting back, why would I go and burn down a walmart if my grudge was with the police? That would be like if i had an issue with you, but I decide to instead beat the crap out of a girl scout I saw one day. Where is the logic in that? What is the point? I could at least somewhat understand destroying police stations, and attacking police, because those are the ones who you feel are your enemies, I still don't agree or support it, but what the bloody HELL is the point in attacking and destroying things that had nothing to do with anything? Do you think that helps? It doesn't, it makes your side look like a bunch of savage thugs and criminals with no regard to who you're hurting.

Also, don't act like just because you are not an adult, that excuses you from not using logic. Try to put yourself in the shoes of people who are suffering because of the riots. Small businesses that are burned down, innocent people killed. Think about what it must feel like to be those people. If you still think the riots are a necessary thing, then frankly, you are an amoral hypocritical and disgusting human being. Hell, CHILDREN have died because of the riots. How anyone, with any moral compass can defend that, is disgusting.

[Leo the Conqueror]

As I have said before, my opinions on riots change. The main argument I've heard about destroying buildings that aren't related I that they are owned by rich white people. It's not only the police, but white culture as a whole. However, my opinion has changed a little since I last posted about it a few weeks ago. I understand where the anger comes from, but I agree with you that burning small unrelated businesses doesn't make sense. I will not, despite that, verbally or physically attack rioters for their actions, because I know what their intentions are and they are very similar to a peaceful protestor.

If you are going to try to scare me into changing my option with the "what if your friend was killed" stuff, expect me to do the same: assuming that you have friends of different races, what if you came home one day and found out that they had been shot by the police when they refused to pay a speeding ticket. Say all you like about how they should have been willing to pay, which is true, but it does not at ALL justify the action that the officers took. Doing so as you have done before actually moved the attention to an irrelevant place.

Anyway, I do use logic, just not really the same way that you might, and often you don't recognize it coming from me. For example I would like to counter a point made when I brought up how police should work withing the city district in which they live in order to help prevent killings. I believe the point was that it could pose somewhat of a bias, and that people might get special treatment. While this is a valid point, you say that the police system isn't broken yet it allows for such a thing to happen. If the system wasn't broken, there would be no crooked cops who give their friends special treatment. And, by comparison, which is worse: a police officer skipping a few tickets on their friends and family, or that same police officer committing an extreme act of police brutality, possibly killing the victim? You decide.

Hope this clarifies a few things.

[Meliva]

How is white culture guilty for a police man killing someone? That logic, is once again asinine. Same as trying to justify destroying something because it's owned by rich white people. Did those rich white people shoot your loved one? Did they hire the cop to do what he did? Or are you just upset and want to take it out on a group of people you simply don't like? The fact that you won't verbally condem the riots is disgusting.

If that scenario happened to me, would you like to know what I would do? I would support my friends family in legal matters in trying to bring the said cop or cops to justice, perhaps peacefully protest if needed. I would NOT however decide "well gee guess ill go and burn down the local walgreens, that sure will help". No, it won't help. If anything, it gives fuel to the defense team. They could say "well he clearly wasn't a good person, look at what his friend did, burn down an innocent walgreens." You are making it easier for people to justify the shooting. It's completely idiotic.

No system is perfect. Because we have people running every system and people are flawed. The police system is not broken. There are some bad cops, yes. Just like there are bad doctors. Bad lawyers. Bad politicians. Bad Teachers. Are all of these systems broken as well? No. They are all flawed, and all have moments when they don't work as they should. The best we can do is try to make the system as hard to corrupt and abuse as possible. But ultimately, people are, clever and adaptable. Some folks will always find a way to try to get by with awful stuff. Most we can do is try to find the corrupt and remove them whenever possible. But new corrupt people, will come and go.

Forcing police to stick to their own community is still a stupid idea. Some communties will end up over represented, while others under represented. Some cops may also abuse it to punsih neighbors they dislike. Giving them tickets whenever possible. There are more then just one or 2 issues with your solution.

If fixing things was so simple as to do that, don't you think someone would have done so already? Don't you think of all the billions of people that are living now, and all who came before, that none of them never had that thought? This is a problem with so many young people honestly. So often they think their ideas and solutions are so revolutionary, and would fix so many problems, yet they never bother to think of all the downsides, or faults, or problems they have. Nor do they seem to ever think, well has anyone tried this before? How did it work? Has someone thought of this idea before but decided against it? if so Why? Is there something I'm not thinking of when it comes to this solution?

No, forget all that, clearly you're just a genius who came up with a brilliant solution that has no faults or issues and the world would be sunshine and rainbows if you had control over laws and regulations. You even openly admit many people ridicule your ideas and say they are radical. Ever wonder why? Do you think it's because they might be bad ideas? Or do you just assume that everyone else is wrong?

[Lachlan]

We do have background checks. Again, in case you didn't know, many gun crimes are committed with guns that were acquired ILLEGALLY. No amount of more laws will help those cases, because again, they are not being acquired legally in the first place. Look at Chicago. It has some of the most restrictions in getting guns, yet some of the highest gun crimes.

Getting a gun legally is not as easy as you think it is in America. Don't just blindly believe what anti-gun folks say. Most of them have no clue what they are talking about. Hell most of them don't even know what guns are what. Just look as what Will said. Automatic guns are not as deadly as you may think. A person who has no experience would most likely just spray a hundred bullets in under a minute, run out of ammo and then be caught. If anything semi-autos are deadlier. It helps inexperienced folks from blasting through all their ammo on a few targets.

then how come if getting a gun is hard in America there is more guns than people compared to in Australia where generally mostly farmers have one? I'm pretty sure in Australia it is much harder to get a gun than there

[Lachlan]

i dont think its lack of opportunity, i think its lack of effort, thats the problem. no amount of help will make these wanna be thugs want to work, green blue yellow or red color dont matter

so how about that covid we would all be dead right now if it wernt for those maskes eh. when they come out with a vaccine be sure to get it, bill gates promises its safe for all of humanity to take and urges please everyone line up for your shot to save us all do your part. lmao

i want to thank those big hero mask copanies for thier $20 boxes of paper masks for your shot to save us all do your part. lmao

almost everything in our culture tells tells the young people to be a drug dealing thug, but that has nothing to do with how people act does it

what do you mean drug dealing thug lol nobody is telling me to do that and even some of my friends who have had a much harder and rougher childhood than me know to stay away from drugs and cigarettes

[Lachlan]

As I have said before, my opinions on riots change. The main argument I've heard about destroying buildings that aren't related I that they are owned by rich white people. It's not only the police, but white culture as a whole. However, my opinion has changed a little since I last posted about it a few weeks ago. I understand where the anger comes from, but I agree with you that burning small unrelated businesses doesn't make sense. I will not, despite that, verbally or physically attack rioters for their actions, because I know what their intentions are and they are very similar to a peaceful protestor.

If you are going to try to scare me into changing my option with the "what if your friend was killed" stuff, expect me to do the same: assuming that you have friends of different races, what if you came home one day and found out that they had been shot by the police when they refused to pay a speeding ticket. Say all you like about how they should have been willing to pay, which is true, but it does not at ALL justify the action that the officers took. Doing so as you have done before actually moved the attention to an irrelevant place.

Anyway, I do use logic, just not really the same way that you might, and often you don't recognize it coming from me. For example I would like to counter a point made when I brought up how police should work withing the city district in which they live in order to help prevent killings. I believe the point was that it could pose somewhat of a bias, and that people might get special treatment. While this is a valid point, you say that the police system isn't broken yet it allows for such a thing to happen. If the system wasn't broken, there would be no crooked cops who give their friends special treatment. And, by comparison, which is worse: a police officer skipping a few tickets on their friends and family, or that same police officer committing an extreme act of police brutality, possibly killing the victim? You decide.

Hope this clarifies a few things.

oof now I'm triple posting now but anyway, Blue I am also not an adult but rioters are generally not peaceful. Even if some rich white dude and his business were supporting white supremacists and corrupt cops there is no need to loot and damage that business. If they are breaking into a property or throwing molotov cocktails at a building that is not a peaceful protest because someone could get hurt. Some of these employees in a certain business could be good african american people who stayed in school and got a steady job to provide for their family and they get caught in between. About the police system yes it needs to change but changing the system there will still always be cops that are corrupt and use excessive force. In Australia I think our police system is pretty good compared to the rest of the world but there is still cases of excessive violence against aboriginals and torres strait islanders. No system will completely fix this problem. The American police system does need to change though.

[Meliva]

then how come if getting a gun is hard in America there is more guns than people compared to in Australia where generally mostly farmers have one? I'm pretty sure in Australia it is much harder to get a gun than there

Again, the population difference plays a role. Also, just because there are a lot of guns, does not mean getting one is easy to do legally. Also, just because it might be harder to get a gun in Australia does not mean getting one is easy in America. And once more, again MOST gun crime is done with guns obtained illegally. So making more laws to get guns won't help with that. It just makes it harder for those who get their guns legally to get them, while the criminals will just do what they've been doing-getting them illegally. All the laws in the world don't matter if a person doesn't obey them in the first place.

There are several reasons why there are so many guns. First, some folks own more then one gun. My father had 3 when I was growing up, back from when he used to go hunting with my oldest brother. His family when he was a child also went hunting, and they owned multiple guns as well. So inheritance is another reason. Some people may also like to collect them. If a person is able to obtain one gun legally, then they can probably obtain more. That's just common sense. So long as they don't abuse them, a person can have as many guns as they want.

[Meliva]

Also Kim, rioters by their very definition are not peaceful. There is no "generally" about it. I'm fine with police reform, but as I've tried to explain to blue, nothing can truly completely get rid of corruption or bad people. No system is perfect, because every system has flawed people in it, so even if the system itself has no problems, the people will make them.

Likewise, destroying businesses like you said is meaningless, even if the owners were guilty of something. Do you think you're hurting them? They already are filthy rich. You just dent their pocketbook, which means they may fire a ton of workers. So ultimately you are hurting other working class people by destroying work places, as well as making goods harder to obtain.

There are VERY few cases where rioting is justified. This is damn well not one of them.

[Lachlan]

Also Kim, rioters by their very definition are not peaceful. There is no "generally" about it. I'm fine with police reform, but as I've tried to explain to blue, nothing can truly completely get rid of corruption or bad people. No system is perfect, because every system has flawed people in it, so even if the system itself has no problems, the people will make them.

Likewise, destroying businesses like you said is meaningless, even if the owners were guilty of something. Do you think you're hurting them? They already are filthy rich. You just dent their pocketbook, which means they may fire a ton of workers. So ultimately you are hurting other working class people by destroying work places, as well as making goods harder to obtain.

There are VERY few cases where rioting is justified. This is damn well not one of them.

yeah I know rioter aren't peaceful, I was thinking more along the lines of protests turning into riots or when rioting all the thugs who just come to loot are arrested than it calms down a little